Transitioning from antibiotics to herbals successfully with neuro Lyme, Bart and babs?

I'm currently off abx and I have had a lot of those symptoms, highly neuro (many are better with the various treatments but I'm trying to keep finding ways to improve). I've found Buhner, Cowden, and Zhang protocols (allicin, houttuynia) to be good. I will say that my symptoms didn't really operate like yours, when I stopped abx they didn't suddenly ramp up. So I'd be careful, maybe trying to add in herbals along with your abx and then seeing if you can drop some of the abx (if that is your goal)? I'd def do research before adding anything in though!

I often mix and match. Currently I'm trying out essential oil combos (via Tick Slayer brand) that are specifically put together for these infections. Def makes me herx like crazy, I think they are pretty strong! but I suspect this will mean they will be effective for me as is usually the pattern of these things for me.

The nice thing with the Buhner protocol is I think it is the most affordable. I can't rely on one thing though because I usually end up plateauing and that's when I need to rotate to something else or add something in.

I also take some oil of oregano capsules, those have seemed to be solid for me as well.

I hope you keep finding effective therapies that help you clear your symptoms!

Oh yes, I do think there are many ways to get better, even with the more difficult cases, and highly neurologically based cases. I do have to say I did do the dapsone protocol and also PZA protocol. They were both helpful and more effective than any other abx combos I'd been on before, but I think I have a very entrenched bartonella case which requires throwing the kitchen sink at it and then some. So obviously didn't get me to remission but those protocols did do some heavy lifting for me in clearing some pathogen load.

Lyme I'm guessing is a secondary driver of my health issues behind bartonella. I did try levaquin (hestitantly) but even a small dose gave me an intolerably insane herx rection that I just couldn't manage.

Oh yes, the byron white and beyond balance are good ones! Ahhh, the ears getting plugged. I must admit this used to be a symptom for me throughout my life, I'm quite certain it is related to the infections. As I've progressed with treatments that symptom disappeared. Same for my mom (also has lyme, she'd also get the plugged ears, we had always assumed allergies as well). So possible it is from the herx reaction... can be hard to say for certain.

Yeah, Cowden was mildly effective for me initially but after a while it wasn't doing anything.

Essential oils, I'd always been quite skeptical. But so far with how I'm responding I'm pleasantly surprised. I had the privilege of talking with some wonderful researchers and they both say the potential of the essential oils for treating these infections is very strong. Dr Zhang has done some promising in vitro studies and is looking to do animal model studies with the oils. The question would be tissue penetration I suppose. But anecdotally (for what it's worth) it seems a decent amount of patients have some success with these therapeutics and from what I hear they have strong ability to penetrate biofilms. I'm guessing they may be able to target persisters but that is just pure guess on my part.

I'm ingesting the oils (mixed with water). I have to start out very slow because I think they are very strong. So best to start out slowly and carefully! The oil of oregano is from Designs for Health, that's the one my doctor suggested to me (a doctor whom I have high confidence in). Couple others in that range of things that I found helpful: blackseed oil (I took capsules), and olive leaf capsules.

I'd say I've been treating earnestly for about 3 years now. I've had the infections a very long time and was bedridden for many years, my guess is the more severe the case and the longer the infections have been there the steeper the climb to recovery. Not impossible, just challenging! I've done about 2.5 years of heavy abx, so while very helpful I'm glad to rotate onto other strategies to keep pushing me forward.

I always like having a framework for treatment strategy and things to fall back on. You could trial out some of these herbal therapies, see how it goes, and then if progress isn't happening can always then try the dapsone-style protocols?

I did the dapsone protocol for 1 year. Followed that with 6 month PZA protocol (I think the PZA was hitting the bart). The thing is Dr H now does the dapsone dosing at 200mg (but for shorter duration), I topped out at 100mg. I've heard he was having more success at the 200mg dosing. I've been on LDN for a while as well, I think it has helped but it's hard to say for sure.

Yeah, I think levaquin was a great drug for the bart infection I'm dealing with, I'd never herxed to that level, it's unfortunate I couldn't manage it. Then again I was also quite worried of all the potential side effects, and with herxing at that level I wouldn't have been able to distinguish between herx/serious side effect. And like you mention, depending on your situation sometimes you have to go more slowly with treatment, not only because the herxing is so strong, but because one can't afford to miss work or other life responsibilities. All about pacing, it's a marathon!

Haha, 100% same, I evolved slowly in my views on alternative therapies. The conventional allopathic therapies proved helpful but herbal combos have been quite efficacious as well. I haven't done hbot but it seems to really help some patients. In my view it's good to look at the variety of tools in the toolbox and use whatever we can to help us manage pain, sleep, boost immune system and body, and finding ways to treat the infections. Tricky cases can require more experimentation.

Traveler is the best! and such a great resource. One well-respected llmd suggested I try higher doses of magnesium malate and magnesium threonate (the threonate supposed to be good for neuro symptoms). I just throw that out there, I figure you might already been on mag supplements but never hurts to share ideas It's my pleasure to share anything I can, I've always tried to learn from other patients and am grateful that so many have been so open in sharing treatments, experiences, support. It's been a godsend, without other patients I'd still likely be undiagnosed and stuck in hell.

Feel free to email me anytime!