Oral treponema can cause lyme symptoms?

It's well know that it's a spirochete, but can it be systemic and cause the same symptoms of lyme?

not normally. no.

when u get very old and sick of other things, then your immune system is very weak and yeah then it can happen. Many say it is a common cause of Alzheimer's.

But then u can get all sorts of diseases including cancer... it all comes down to the immune system, if it works properly or not.

In people that have healthy immune system the answer is NO

magoo2 said...
mpost-normally you wouldn't get lyme either

I don't know that this is well substantiated. Borrelia is a primary human pathogen. General health can certainly go a long way towards healing and certain humans may be somewhat resistant, but usually exposure to Lyme appears to be sufficient to cause disease in primates. I don't know that I fully agree with mpost either. Oral treponemes don't cause problems when they don't have the microaerophilic pockets of diseased gums to proliferate in. But their presence in the blood stream is another story. I mean, disease gums definitely falls somewhere on the spectrum of immune dysfunction for sure, but I don't know that you have to be very old with a very weak immune system. Those things are not supposed to be in your blood period and simply gaining entry is likely to be enough to cause a chronic inflammatory response. There are many pathobionts within the human body like this with the capacity to cause serious illness under certain conditions. Those conditions would definitely amount to some sort of immune dysfunction, but it doesn't have to be all that extreme. It could be simply the wiping out of a competing flora by antibiotics for example. Something plenty of young people experience.

They have not been as well studied though so I don't think we can say whether they cause Lyme symptoms. They've been connected with atherosclerosis, pancreatic cancer, and alzheimers. So they probably contribute to a variety of diseases. But Lyme like disease specifically? Who can say.

This is more the area I am focused on:
Treponema denticola: not so harmless after all
/www.lymeneteurope.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3673

mpost-many docs disagree with your immunocopetent statement. Many docs treat lyme by simply making the body healthier. Often they do this by removing root canals ( pockets of infections), removing metals, treating parasites, stem cells and changing diets and never treating the lyme.
There is a reason why many lyme docs suggest removing root canals.

mpost said...


so i dare to say the vast majority of cases when that dental spirochete gets nuts is in people with severely deranged immune systems. Like u have untreated AIDS , then ofc u can have a serious case of this bacteria spreading... or if u are 90 years old. It can get to your brain then u will develop alzheimers and nobody will know why...

I don't know that awareness has anything to do with reality. There are plenty of autoimmune diseases with no known cause even though pathogens are the most likely explanation. Some day there may be CDC rallies

magoo2 said...
mpost-many docs disagree with your immunocopetent statement. Many docs treat lyme by simply making the body healthier. Often they do this by removing root canals ( pockets of infections), removing metals, treating parasites, stem cells and changing diets and never treating the lyme.
There is a reason why many lyme docs suggest removing root canals.

.

ive eaten like a saint since a few years ago and im not feeling much better and still sick.

i am gluten free dairy free sugar free. i NEVER cheat. detoxing with herbs and meds.

have not had a wine glass since xmas. .
all these things helped a little, but see i relapsed while doing them and the herbs! the only thing that helped me significantly, like ever, were antibiotics.

so please indicate us the forum users that got healed just by eating healthy , i would like to learn their secrets.

The most interesting thing I saw in one of the studies is that it looks like they say dental spirochetes light up Band 43 on Serological blots??? Am I reading that right?

https://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/handle/2027.42/73677/j.1399-302X.2007.00404.x.pdf;jsessionid=FAFCED7FDD86A05D09F9B9988D948508?sequence=1

Missouri said...
The most interesting thing I saw in one of the studies is that it looks like they say dental spirochetes light up Band 43 on Serological blots??? Am I reading that right?

https://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/handle/2027.42/73677/j.1399-302X.2007.00404.x.pdf;jsessionid=FAFCED7FDD86A05D09F9B9988D948508?sequence=1

Not sure but putting this on the backburner for later reading. Thanks.

If someone recovers completely from their symptoms by only making lifestyle and diet changes without taking antimicrobial medication (whatever that medication may be), then they did not have Lyme or any other serious infection.

Noah2112- many doc treat lyme without antimicrobials.

They all do way more than diet.
Read Yolonda;s book
Youtube Dr Rau
Read Dr Yu's book.
There are many more examples.

Believe whatever you want but there are reasons why some get lyme and others never do.