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Posted 8/6/2018 4:35 PM (GMT -5)
I am living proof that antibiotics do not work against lyme disease. I've been taking antibiotics for 7 years now to combat lyme disease. I had a test done where they put your blood into a petri dish and culture spirochetes. After 6 months, they successfully cultured spirochetes.

It's official. Antibiotics do nothing to kill spirochetes. 7 years I've wasted taking those chemicals. They did nothing. Unbelievable. We need to start looking for cures elsewhere.
Posted 8/6/2018 4:37 PM (GMT -5)

gfields said...
I am living proof that antibiotics do not work against lyme disease. I've been taking antibiotics for 7 years now to combat lyme disease. I had a test done where they put your blood into a petri dish and culture spirochetes. After 6 months, they successfully cultured spirochetes.

It's official. Antibiotics do nothing to kill spirochetes. 7 years I've wasted taking those chemicals. They did nothing. Unbelievable. We need to start looking for cures elsewhere.

But, that isn't the case for everyone. I personally know people in remission... have emailed/talked to them.
and they've not relapsed in 4 years for one, 2-3 years for another, and over 5 years for one more....
Not to mention the forum members here who have been in remission...
and of course the people in Under Our Skin documentary.


So, did you treat the biofilms and cyst form...as well as bartonella and babesia (with an anti-malarial)?

gfields - did you get to symptom free....or almost?
Posted 8/6/2018 4:58 PM (GMT -5)
I think the situation is more complicated than X=Y. Given we know very little about these evolving pathogens its just not a simple answer unfortunately. There's your own microbiome, immune system, age, health, nutrition, exercise, gender, etc. etc. It's truly a very personal disease.

For those that are chronic in my own experiences I'd say far more folks don't get well using abx versus those that do. People can argue their positions but that's my take.

I've been taking buttloads of abx for almost 4 years and I'm not in remission. Taking "more time" is just another way of delaying trying some other modalities to get cured. I think these bugs are quite adept at surviving so you need to constantly put pressure on them by rotating different things.
Posted 8/6/2018 5:20 PM (GMT -5)

gfields said...
I am living proof that antibiotics do not work against lyme disease. I've been taking antibiotics for 7 years now to combat lyme disease. I had a test done where they put your blood into a petri dish and culture spirochetes. After 6 months, they successfully cultured spirochetes.

It's official. Antibiotics do nothing to kill spirochetes. 7 years I've wasted taking those chemicals. They did nothing. Unbelievable. We need to start looking for cures elsewhere.

It's the different forms they take, their resistance to certain abx, all kinds of things. From everything I have researched on lyme and abx, it seems the abx is there to knock down the load. But we have build up our immune system at some point and let it take back over.
Posted 8/6/2018 5:22 PM (GMT -5)
It took the park ranger on Under our Skin 8 years to get better.

What a hellish disease.
Posted 8/6/2018 5:35 PM (GMT -5)

Hoagie said...

gfields said...
I am living proof that antibiotics do not work against lyme disease. I've been taking antibiotics for 7 years now to combat lyme disease. I had a test done where they put your blood into a petri dish and culture spirochetes. After 6 months, they successfully cultured spirochetes.

It's official. Antibiotics do nothing to kill spirochetes. 7 years I've wasted taking those chemicals. They did nothing. Unbelievable. We need to start looking for cures elsewhere.

It's the different forms they take, their resistance to certain abx, all kinds of things. From everything I have researched on lyme and abx, it seems the abx is there to knock down the load. But we have build up our immune system at some point and let it take back over.

I'm with you, knock down the load, build the systems back up however you can. When used with strategic purpose and knowledge, abx can be a great tool for knocking back the load. I hesitate to say they can fix everything, or they can't fix anything. Like most things with these diseases, mileage will vary person to person. It also depends how they are implemented (strategic rotations, pulses, specific combos). They are imperfect tools for these difficult diseases, but one of the better options imo, especially in the hands of skilled and knowledgable practitioners. In my case have been very helpful, but it's been a long slog that is for sure.

Gfields, have you looked into bee venom therapy? I know some people seem to be doing really well with that.
Posted 8/6/2018 5:58 PM (GMT -5)

Hoagie said...
It took the park ranger on Under our Skin 8 years to get better.

What a hellish disease.

I knew it was a long haul for him but couldn’t remember how long. He was asked what worked and he couldn’t really say - I think he said he did “it all”

Sheesh!

I believe some people give up on it after two or three years - maybe that’s the key - to out-last it - I know people who have just stopped treating after a couple of years.

What an endurance test this is, hey?

Yup, Hoagie it’s hellish alright
Posted 8/6/2018 6:46 PM (GMT -5)
My nurse sister began treating Lyme, radically, in 2008. Thats TEN years of treatment. She's very much so against the chemical ABX route now, and doing herbal tinctures & CBD OIL> but thats HER expsrience.

Now, myself, I BEGAN treatment using herbal tinctures and 'natural' support, then switched to the 'chemicals'. Im finding that i feel way worse on abx treatment then I did on the herbal tinctures....

We would do well to remember 2things. 1) Its not JUST Lyme> for many of us its complex;often involving the mthfr gene mutation where we're basically doomed(myself). 2) How early(or late) one begins treatment, plays a MAJOR role in longterm remission!!!

Its SO challenging when your(which I am) a CHRONIC Lymie, w/M.S.I.D.'s, and that gene mutation, knowing that youre NOT going to fully recover..."fully"???, not even halfway.

Oh sorry, theres a 3rd thing... age. The younger the stronger your immune system. Im 54, and I accept that theres ONLY ONE certainty in life, and thats death. We ALL MUST DIE. I will die from Lyme complications. So, I live one day at atime. I TRY to be appreciative for each day i 'get' to live. However, I DO have days where Id rather die>soon!!!
Posted 8/6/2018 6:59 PM (GMT -5)
“Its SO challenging when your(which I am) a CHRONIC Lymie, w/M.S.I.D.'s, and that gene mutation, knowing that youre NOT going to fully recover..."fully"???, not even halfway.”

Why do you say that? Which gene mutation


“I will die from Lyme complications”

Is Lyme and cos affecting your heart? ... just wondering how you know you’ll die from Lyme complications?
Posted 8/6/2018 7:31 PM (GMT -5)
Oh, my microbiologist LLND, who studied under Dr. H., has told me theres no cure. My nurse lyme sister, knows many actually, who have died from complications that arise from the infections...ie, Alzheimers, arthersclorosis, liver failure, and heart failure.

The gene mutation makes it impossible for my body to fight infection(s). And there's the aging factor....oh and tje fact that the hypothalamas has been perm. damaged. The hypothalamas produces chemicals that send messages to produce essential hormones & chemicals.

Lastly, I have a chronic infection of chlamydophila which is KNOWN to cause hardening of the arteries, which my mother and grandmother died from....perhaps THEY HAD an infection driving their disease...


But, ya.... we all die....eventually!!! So lets enjoy each day as it comes!!!
Posted 8/6/2018 7:43 PM (GMT -5)
Are you talking about the HLA gene?
Posted 8/6/2018 8:22 PM (GMT -5)
Mcspike, what are you doing for the mthfr gene? You’re a babe compared to me. How long have you been treating? I see you joined in 2016.

Patty
Posted 8/6/2018 11:45 PM (GMT -5)
From my first ABX to last was about 14 months, was ill off and on for decades but functioned until 2007 or so. I hated ABX, its harsh stuff. But it apparently helped. I did all I could to get sleep to.

Had high hopes of feeling 100% someday, but figured it would be a miracle if that happened. I tested with Advanced labs toward the end of ABX and was negative after culturing for 8 weeks. Ive never heard of culturing for 6 months before, thats a long time.

Lymies often mention importance of strengthening the immune system, but:

-How many actually know how to do this and succeed? Its only a guess unless you measure something. -How are you measuring "gains" in immunity?

After 2 years of eating better, my gut has felt the best for as long as I can remember. BUT my lymphocytes (T and B cells) are still low, just like others who continue to have low CD57 (which is T and B cells together). Ive tried everything but IV Immunoglobulins. That might be the last resort, but it will strengthen my immune system. Will it cause a reaction? I dont know.
Posted 8/7/2018 7:22 AM (GMT -5)
its disheartening seeing posts like this, yet each one of our struggles is unique.

i remain hopeful, as i have seen progress over the 7 months i have been treating, I am 48 years old. I have been chronic my best estimations at 18 months before diagnosis and treatment began.

Like most have said, it too believe it takes a multifaceted approach, trying different things, rotating, then rebuilding. my focus has shifted from wanting to kill the pathogens at all costs to knocking them down, and continuing to wear away at them, while trying to rebuild my immune system as well as all the other damage done by the bugs and antibiotics.

perhaps that would be another good thread, about what steps people have taken to rebuild or strengthen the immune system, and what tests are beneficial for gauging progress.

Post Edited (sierraDon) : 8/7/2018 6:26:05 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 8/7/2018 10:32 AM (GMT -5)
>>From everything I have researched on lyme and abx, it seems the abx is there to knock down the load. But we have build up our immune system at some point and let it take back over.

totally agree with the first part of the statement but not so sure about the immune system part. i think for some (maybe mostt who knows) the immune system no matter how you support it isn't good enough to remove these pathogens from our body.

i apparently have no immune system problems to speak of. everything checks out, all the numbers are good, etc. yet i can't shake the symptoms.

some say well its just a matter of time and if you've taken that time well it must be you didn't do this or that. i'm not buying it.

sure its good to eat well and do all the best practices necessary to be optimal for whatever your health should be, but that doesn't mean you will get rid of the pathogens.

over the past 4 years i do sway back and forth between killing them and strengthening the immune system but of late its about killing the ******s in different ways like using BVT, Rife or Oxygen IV.

not saying these will work but its apparent my immune system isn't capable of handling these pathogens and i think its largely due to my unique DNA.

some get infected and never take a drug and have no symptoms. others are wheelchair bound with the same pathogen.

this is why so much more money and research needs to be put into this area.
Posted 8/7/2018 10:38 AM (GMT -5)
Rikky1, have you already done BVT? if so what did you think? I feel like I'm getting closer and closer to remission but I'd like to hedge my bets, I always like researching various contingencies just in case. BVT interests me a lot, but starting out on my own feels daunting.
Posted 8/7/2018 10:53 AM (GMT -5)
I'm interesting in hearing about your bvt experience as well, rikky.

Ellie Lobel says bvt should be done for 2 - 3 years as a monotherapy. A lot of herbs and abx are contraindicative to the bvt.
Posted 8/7/2018 12:12 PM (GMT -5)
i've done rife but not bvt. bluelyme and a few others have done it and have had various success.

see this is what bothers me you have to do something for SO LONG to see if its effective. what if its not? same with abx or any other thing. so you try one modality for 2 years, maybe you aren't fully better, do another one for 2 years, etc. etc.

i mean WTH?

maybe that's the nature of the beast like treating tuberculosis but unlike using drugs that are proven to kill TB you don't have the same assurances with modalities that treat lyme and its friends.
Posted 8/7/2018 12:28 PM (GMT -5)
I actually agree with gfields. And Bart as well. I think only your immune system can keep people in remission. And then for how long? Other illness, stress can be all it takes. I did not want to be on abx forever so I'm transitioning to herbs and other alternatives like rife and cbd. Abx has a role to knock infection back. I have gotten worse over the last yr of abx - after a period of remission
Posted 8/7/2018 12:36 PM (GMT -5)

Rikky1 said...
i've done rife but not bvt. bluelyme and a few others have done it and have had various success.

see this is what bothers me you have to do something for SO LONG to see if its effective. what if its not? same with abx or any other thing. so you try one modality for 2 years, maybe you aren't fully better, do another one for 2 years, etc. etc.

i mean WTH?

maybe that's the nature of the beast like treating tuberculosis but unlike using drugs that are proven to kill TB you don't have the same assurances with modalities that treat lyme and its friends.

There are a lot of success stories with bvt. I very rarely hear of someone it didn't help. Even Dr Klinghardt says that bv is the most effective tx he's come across. Of course, there is no one size fits all. But after seeing all the successful recent studies regarding bv and lyme, I'm surprised more people aren't trying it. The science is now there.

Post Edited (Hoagie) : 8/7/2018 11:53:45 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 8/7/2018 12:52 PM (GMT -5)
/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5745474/#!po=25.8621
Posted 8/7/2018 8:22 PM (GMT -5)
you know why people aren't trying BVT? cause you have to sting yourself with live bees 40 times a week for what could be a year or two!

compare that to getting shots, taking pills, etc. big difference ;o)
Posted 8/7/2018 9:22 PM (GMT -5)

Rikky1 said...
you know why people aren't trying BVT? cause you have to sting yourself with live bees 40 times a week for what could be a year or two!

compare that to getting shots, taking pills, etc. big difference ;o)


Or 3...

But if it was a promising treatment, would you do it?

I feel it's worth it to get healed. And the people who are healing using this are not relapsing.

And according to the Ellie and others doing it, it not only addresses all coinfections, but viruses and parasites as well. It's immune modulating as well. It's more anti inflammatory than any steroid.

Post Edited (Hoagie) : 8/7/2018 8:28:27 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 8/8/2018 3:26 PM (GMT -5)
The cost of lyme life was way higher than the temporary ,eventually masochistic pleasure pain relief it brought for me ....all spirochete motility stops , venom has dopamine and my gut had not made that for my brain in a long time on abx. Some of it is anl pain reliever too.... then there its a relationship with the bees life 4life rather than just beeing a taker...

Not 4 everyone thank goodness, not enough bees to cure the world
Posted 8/9/2018 6:18 AM (GMT -5)
Hi all,

If one researches antibiotic resistance they may find out that antibiotics are in our drinking water, agriculture (chickens, cows, etc.) and because of this most people are (and have been) resistant to antibiotics. It's no wonder gfields stated that abx didn't work for him.

And as time goes by (unless farmers STOP feeding their livestock abx which I doubt will happen and water starts getting cleaned up) then the rate of resistance will keep on going up no matter what type of abx it is.

As far as BVT I might have considered that if Jernigan's protocol didn't work for me (my mind is open to all natural alternatives instead of putting chemicals in my body)...

Below are some links to ponder:

/www.naturalnews.com/054061_antibiotic_resistance_natural_immunity_bacterial_infections.html

/www.naturalnews.com/055721_antibiotics_drinking_water_chemical_contamination.html

/www.naturalnews.com/052988_antibiotic_resistance_livestock_agriculture_physicians.html

Denise
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