Cytokines/Inflammation?

RJD76

Regular Member

Joined : Sep 2013

Posts : 155

Posted 9/19/2018 8:24 AM (GMT -5)

Hi all,

i'm just trying to figure out what is happening in regards og symptoms. I just finished this protocol (30 days):

Atovaquone: 3 tablets morning, 3 evening
Primaquine: 1 tablet morning
Clarithromycin: 1 tablet morning, 1 evening
Eremfat/Rifampin: 2 tablets evening
Pyrazinamid: 1 tablet morning, 2 evening
Tinidazol: 1 tablet morning, 1 evening (16 days on/14 days off)

(https://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=4047171&g=4051320#m4051320)

Had to stop about a month earlier due to yeast overgrowth (white/yellow coating on tongue). This was after consulting with my LLMD who said that it was justified to stop because of mycosis of the mouth and throat.

All my symptoms started getting worse after a week on this protocol. Been off for about 10 days. Pains includes hand, finger and toepains. Also my knees hurt so much I cannot stand up at times. More airhunger and nightsweats. My headpressure and facepain is also severe. My pains can be described as burning and pressure all over my body incl face, knees, ankle, thighs and calves.

I think I can tell for sure that more rounds of abx will not make this better. But still we agreeed to try another round when i get the yeast under control. Same protocol as I did 4 years ago with great success back then. But my LLMD does not advise to interupt the Malarone/Atovaquone therapy, especially since this drug is not an antibiotic, but an anti-malarial drug; it should be taken for at least 4 months without interruption. Therefore I continued this on a lower dose (4 tablets a day instead of 6).

Anyone had success with Malarone/Atovaquone and Primaquine for Babesia alone?

In terms of my symptoms: Can this be related to inflammation?

I have read that if abx cannot rid the bacteria, as a result inflamamtion remains chronic and symptoms will hang around often worse than before. And therefore treat lyme by reducing cytokines, and with time i will start to feel better. Can this be a right theory?

I have yet to start Buhner, and just purchased the rest of his core protocol herbals. Awaiting delivery.
So currently i take nothing. How to proceed?

Also I read that Astragalus is for new tickbites only, and not for Chronic lyme?

Sorry for all the questions.

Thanks!

Tommy

Georgia Hunter

Veteran Member

Joined : May 2012

Posts : 2688

Posted 9/19/2018 9:27 AM (GMT -5)

One thing that happens with Lyme, or in your case, a protozoal infection, is an increase in cytokines during the inflammatory process. Cytokines directly affect the Kynurenine Pathway and the breakdown of Tryptophan. Long story short, you have more Quinolinic Acid which is a NMDA agonist. Think more problems.

What happens is a decrease in Tryptophan leads to the pathway shunting to Niacin for NAD production. This is partly my problem as well. With this, you see a reduction in B3, B2 and B6. Our GI flora is responsible for making and replenishing most of the B vitamins but the pathogen's toxins and/or reduction in pH prevent adequate quantities of bacteria which keeps their levels suppressed. Over time, you can expect vision disturbances, liver issues, sometimes blood issues, skin issues, it's not a good outlook.

Supplementing these vitamins can help but it can also be detrimental. As you bring your immune system back online by supplementing, the increase in inflammation from still having the pathogen(s) causes a lot of oxidative stress which can really be troublesome. That's why supplementing with Manganese or Molybdenum can be problems for so many people. There are many pieces to the puzzle and unless we get the bacteria in the GI tract to where they need to be, we're just spinning our wheels.

Reduce the pathogens, increase the good GI bacteria, decrease the bad GI bacteria, sounds simple right?

Girlie

Forum Moderator

Joined : May 2014

Posts : 48577

Posted 9/19/2018 12:49 PM (GMT -5)

RJD76 said...
Hi all,

i'm just trying to figure out what is happening in regards og symptoms. I just finished this protocol (30 days):

Atovaquone: 3 tablets morning, 3 evening
Primaquine: 1 tablet morning
Clarithromycin: 1 tablet morning, 1 evening
Eremfat/Rifampin: 2 tablets evening
Pyrazinamid: 1 tablet morning, 2 evening
Tinidazol: 1 tablet morning, 1 evening (16 days on/14 days off)

(https://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=4047171&g=4051320#m4051320)

Had to stop about a month earlier due to yeast overgrowth (white/yellow coating on tongue). This was after consulting with my LLMD who said that it was justified to stop because of mycosis of the mouth and throat.

All my symptoms started getting worse after a week on this protocol. Been off for about 10 days. Pains includes hand, finger and toepains. Also my knees hurt so much I cannot stand up at times. More airhunger and nightsweats. My headpressure and facepain is also severe. My pains can be described as burning and pressure all over my body incl face, knees, ankle, thighs and calves.

I think I can tell for sure that more rounds of abx will not make this better. But still we agreeed to try another round when i get the yeast under control. Same protocol as I did 4 years ago with great success back then. But my LLMD does not advise to interupt the Malarone/Atovaquone therapy, especially since this drug is not an antibiotic, but an anti-malarial drug; it should be taken for at least 4 months without interruption. Therefore I continued this on a lower dose (4 tablets a day instead of 6).

Anyone had success with Malarone/Atovaquone and Primaquine for Babesia alone?

In terms of my symptoms: Can this be related to inflammation?

I have read that if abx cannot rid the bacteria, as a result inflamamtion remains chronic and symptoms will hang around often worse than before. And therefore treat lyme by reducing cytokines, and with time i will start to feel better. Can this be a right theory?

I have yet to start Buhner, and just purchased the rest of his core protocol herbals. Awaiting delivery.
So currently i take nothing. How to proceed?

Also I read that Astragalus is for new tickbites only, and not for Chronic lyme?

Sorry for all the questions.

Thanks!

Tommy

I hadn't heard of Primaquine - but looked it up and see it's an anti-malarial.

Your protocol looks like a tough one to tolerate. The malrone/primaquine/rifampin/pyrazinamide is a lot - you're targeting the babesia and bartonella.plus persisters.

That would be very difficult to take daily ongoing.
I did have some 'luck' with Mepron for Babesia.
I'm not sure you can tell now that it's not going to work 4 years later.

I think you're having a herx combined with maybe some med side effects. I know that the atovaquone hit my head pretty hard. (pressure behind my eyes, felt like my head was going to explode)
But...not sure if it was ALL from the killing of the babesia...I think there were also some side effects.

Inflammation = herx.

re: Astragalus. S.Buhner wrote that in chronic lyme it can ramp up an autoimmune type response.

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