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tight chest/lungs. Anyone else? babesia?

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Posted 11/13/2018 12:52 PM (GMT -5)
hi I have asked this recently in my lots of other posts- but I also asked a bunch of other things , so this time I am focusing on this one specific question which I need answers to

Does anyone else here have a feeling of a tight restricted chest/lung area which affects breathing? and is this a babesia symptom? My doctors don't seem to know. So I am treating it as babesia but I would like to hear from others who have had this in order to help me understand if this is in fact babesia or a tick borne thing, if I see it is a common thing others have had.
Posted 11/13/2018 12:58 PM (GMT -5)
Yes. I did. I posted on your other thread.
Posted 11/13/2018 1:16 PM (GMT -5)
Yes, it's an awful feeling. I think it can often be related to babesia toxins effect on the autonomic nervous system (although there can be other causes). May want to consider trying things that could potentially help relax the ANS, things off the top of my head: higher dose l-theanine, full spectrum CBD, and this idea doesn't come without drawbacks but as a last resort benzos. Personally I'd rather try the first two and avoid benzos unless you can't find relief from any other avenue.
Posted 11/13/2018 1:22 PM (GMT -5)
can you please explain it further? I have been literally trying to figure this out for years- the WHY and HOW of how the babesia causes this- and I hear you saying that the ANS system is affected but I don't understand the specifics of it. I have also used valium when it gets really bad and it does help and I don't understand why. I get the ague idea that it relaxes the ANS but I really don't understand the cause of it- can you please explain it more?
And then, if I am using something like Buhner's CSA to try to treat it, which many have said works for them, why does this work? the more I understand it the more targeted I can be in my treatment because right now I am doing a lot of guessing and my doctors do not know. Even llmds. Thank you
Posted 11/13/2018 1:25 PM (GMT -5)
And walking by faith and seberg-- please remind me if and how you got rid of it? I am sure you told me many times already but I am a bit overwhelmed at the moment. Thanks!
Posted 11/13/2018 1:35 PM (GMT -5)
I'm sorry, but unfortunately I haven't found a biochemical explanation of what exactly is going on and how it is happening. I wish we had more research on these diseases because we'd have a lot more concrete answers for these issues.

I think at this point we are mainly going off of anecdotal information in regards to this idea. It fits my experience and I do have strong intuition this is what is going on, but it doesn't mean that's what is actually going on. I am merely a patient who is performing best-guessing, so my idea should be taken with a proper grain of salt.

In regards to CSA and why it proves to have some effect for babesia, I would highly recommend checking out Buhner's Lyme Coinfections book on babesia. He goes through many of the herbs he uses and crafts his analysis around the available studies. It generally seems that anti-malarials have good effect on babesia, but effectiveness of certain things probably varies person to person based on the different strains they are harboring.
Posted 11/13/2018 1:36 PM (GMT -5)
also- someone recommended this herbal mixture to me to help with the tightness- not to treat the babesia infection but to help with the symptoms. ( I am trying to treat the babesia right now with the buhner protocol)
I am unclear if this type of thing would help the chest tightness since it is caused by whatever mysterious thing this babesia is, and this is geared more towards asthma? I emailed the herbalist who sells this and she said it could likely help- but I am still unsure- any opinions on this? https://www.sagewomanherbs.com/sage-woman-herbs-breathe-relief-tincture-2oz.html?fbclid=IwAR09W_HFT7he_U00GV69b070XjayzF3cum6OVi2RgTAvMDxbY6RA8GIvhrM

Post Edited (flowergarden) : 11/13/2018 11:39:01 AM (GMT-7)

Posted 11/13/2018 1:51 PM (GMT -5)
Very interesting, I wasn't familiar with that particular combo. It looks promising, I think it'd be worth a shot. Blue vervain could help (it's in the combo), I don't have knowledge on the other herbs. Might look into trying this one myself! thanks for sharing
Posted 11/13/2018 2:09 PM (GMT -5)
thanks sebreg- you are very kind. I am just not sure if this would help given the weird cause of the tightness-- and it can be scary to add in random herbs especially when it affects breathing.
Posted 11/13/2018 5:14 PM (GMT -5)
Mine went away for the most part before I knew about Lyme.

I have had slight symptom return at times when using babesia herbs -Paragone (from Woodland Essence), artemesia, maybe Sida acuta. If you use Sida acuta, be careful with that one. It can be very potent and cause symptoms to flare, so go low and slow - a few drops.

I may have mentioned in a different post that according to Stephen Buhner, bartonella can cause chest pain and lung symptoms.

From his bartonella book at the bottom of page 295, under Pulmonary Complications from bartonella:

"Chest wall abscess, difficulty breathing, long-term unexplained cough, pneumonia, pleuritic chest pain, pleural effusion, bilateral infiltrates, widened mediastinum, apical pleural thickening, post mediastinal mass, diffuse bilateral reticulonodular pulmonary infiltrates, multiple bilateral pleural nodules."

Where he lists herbs for specific symptoms, the only pulmonary symptom he offers an herbal treatment for is "unproductive cough." The herb for that is Bidens pilosa tincture, 1/4 tsp 3-6 x day.

I use Bidens and feel it is a good herb for me. It is also part of Buhner's babesia protocol. Likewise, Sida acuta is in the protocols for both babesia and bartonella.

Have you been to a pulmonologist and had a complete workup, including asthma test? If not, I think it would be a very good thing to do considering your symptoms and how long you've had them. The workup should include physical exam, chest xray, pulmonary function test, and methycholine challenge test for asthma. You really need to rule that out.
Posted 11/13/2018 7:35 PM (GMT -5)
thanks for the info. I haven't had the full work up. I had a chest x ray. I have been meaning to get the pulmonary function test but have been scared to and have not yet. I have it called into the hospital to do when I get up the courage. I have had dr exams where they listen to my lungs and chest with a stethoscope. I am seeing my dr tomorrow actually and will mention all this to him. My breathing issues got so much worse 7 weeks ago that I was scared to go in for the pulmonary function test during the crisis of that extreme symptoms, it is a little better now so I may be able to handle it. I am scared of the PFT because I don't want to be breathing weird stuff into my lungs- don't they make you do that?

I have been using a sida acuta- cryptolepsis-bidens tincture for a couple of weeks, just started taking it more regularly. symptoms started before I started taking it and are slightly improved since taking both it and a homeopathic thing I am doing.
Posted 11/13/2018 7:39 PM (GMT -5)
oh I just looked up the methycholine challenge test and it says you breathe in something that makes your lungs feel worse when you do it?? sounds awful! Isnt there a better way to check for asthma? I have mentioned asthma to the last two dr's I saw, and they just listened to my lungs with a stethoscope and said it is not asthma, but I am not sure if that was a thorough way to check or not.
Posted 11/13/2018 7:57 PM (GMT -5)
It super scares me to consider that I could have asthma! Of course I have considered it since I have the tight chest. for some reason the dr's I saw all dismissed it pretty quickly whenever I brought it up, I am not sure why. this is why ( and I see my doctor tomorrow to follow up about all this) I am trying to find others on here who have had the tight chest that was actually caused by babesia. At least I can treat babesia and put it into remission. But yeah I need to have the pulmonary function test to rule things out.
Posted 11/13/2018 8:13 PM (GMT -5)
walking by faith: yeah, your suggestion clearly triggered a fear I already have that yes this could be something like asthma, something other than tick borne. And I need to get it checked out, hence my multiple replies. But I am wondering-- when you had the tight breathing, how did you ( or anyone else who has had this) determine that it was a tick borne thing and not asthma or something else? Did you do a pulmonary function test?
Can I do a PFT without having to breathe triggering substances into my lungs?
And for anyone who knows the answer- how does the feeling of asthma differ from the feeling of tight chest/lungs from a tick illness? thank you
Posted 11/13/2018 8:35 PM (GMT -5)
I don't think they use drugs with the regular PFT, but they do with the methycholine challenge test. I asked the pulmonologist how accurate this asthma test is, and he told me it is the gold standard.

I understand the fear. I had both the regular PFT and the challenge test when my symptoms were the worst. Results of both were normal and I didn't die like I thought I would. I was also terrified that I might have asthma. Thank God, I didn't.

With the challenge test, they give you a 2nd drug to counteract the provoking agent.

Honestly, your scenario sounds so much like mine. I had air hunger years before when Lyme symptoms first started, but they resolved after a time.

Then, 6 years later, I got sick with bronchitis, and that's when all chest tightness, serious trouble breathing, pleuritic chest pain, and cough started and went on for 4 months.

Ironically, I did not even connect it to my initial Lyme symptoms because they felt different and manifested differently. I didn't realize it was the same mystery illness I'd had for years.

I encourage you to be brave and get tested so you'll know. If PFT is normal and asthma is negative, you put that out of your mind and focus on Lyme, babesia, and bartonella. If asthma test is positive, you will need to quickly look for causes - mold (visible or hidden), allergies. Since you had babesia before and your latest and worst occurrence followed an acute illness, I'm pretty sure it's related to babesia/bartonella.

When the breathing is hard, try to stay calm and don't exert yourself. If I come across anything besides Bidens pilosa and other babs and bart herbs already mentioned that might ease those symptoms, I'll post an update.
Posted 11/13/2018 8:44 PM (GMT -5)
I just thought of something. Colloidal silver may help. I use the spray up my nose and the drops under the tingue. A full tsp of drops did cause a herx, though. The nasal spray didn't cause any herxes.

A nebulizer might help. Not sure what to put in it though - something anti-inflammatory or relaxing. Maybe the doctor or herbalist can suggest something safe.
Steroid inhalers are what knocked mine out about 85%, but steroids are bad for Lyme/co. I didn't know I had Lyme at the time.
Posted 11/13/2018 8:48 PM (GMT -5)
thanks very much!! yeah, my breathing issues started 6 years ago after I too way too many abx when I first had lyme, not sure if that was connected or if it was just the babesia. Then I had period of really bad breathing-- particularly 2 years ago I had severe air hunger, which was cured by babesia herbals and iron supplements. then I was ok for the most part for a couple of years- able to do an hour of cardio at the gym regularly, but I always had a low level of breathing tightness. sometimes it would flare a bit.

Then 10 weeks ago I woke up one day randomly with vertigo- and had an inner ear virus for three and a half weeks that kept me dizzy that whole time. Just as that faded out, my upper chest got tight- which had never been a symptom before. Usually my breathing issues were in lower ribs and diaphragm-- and so for lie two or three weeks my breathing was so bad I couldn't even take a walk. oh yeah- just prior to the tightness, when I first had the vertigo, I had an ER visit due to the dizziness, panic attack and heart racing. My breathing wasn't actually bad then but I mentioned I had breathing issues in the past so I was up for the chest x ray they suggested. They said that and all my bloodwork was fine.
So when the dizzy virus left the upper chest tightness came on. Since then the breathing has gotten a little easier-- I have seen my chiropractor a lot and each adjustment seems to give some relief. When I first started my ribs were super tight but now they move as they should. I just still have this gripped up feeing in my upper chest- but it can go away for hours at a time and then return.. Today I took a semi decent walk. I have no wheezing. I can take in a full breath. At the start of this 7 week period the breathing was worse- I couldn't even speak without getting winded, so there is improvement. Just still tight and still at night sometimes it grips up when I am sleeping. But I guess it is less severe. I am trying this constitutional homeopathic remedy out, which I have never done before- and the homeopathic doctorsaid I would notice improvement in about 6 weeks- I am 3 weeks in. so at least I have had a little improvement. My doctors I have seen said if it was asthma I would have wheezing, which I don't. I also don't have mucus or a cough. Just a tight gripped up feeling in my upper bronchials and sometimes in my lower. And I did have a lot of trouble breathing and still do some but there are longer periods of ease than there were. I am taking the homeopathic, buher's CSA ( with bidens) and black seed oil and curcumin for now.
Gonna run this all by my dr again tomorrow in terms of trying to rule out things other than tick illnesses.
Thanks again for your input. I know you are right about the PFT.
Posted 11/13/2018 9:01 PM (GMT -5)

flowergarden said...
can you please explain it further? I have been literally trying to figure this out for years- the WHY and HOW of how the babesia causes this- and I hear you saying that the ANS system is affected but I don't understand the specifics of it. I have also used valium when it gets really bad and it does help and I don't understand why. I get the ague idea that it relaxes the ANS but I really don't understand the cause of it- can you please explain it more?
And then, if I am using something like Buhner's CSA to try to treat it, which many have said works for them, why does this work? the more I understand it the more targeted I can be in my treatment because right now I am doing a lot of guessing and my doctors do not know. Even llmds. Thank you

This system works automatically (autonomously), without a person’s conscious effort.
Your autonomic nervous system controls all of your vital functions, many of which you aren't consciously aware of.
Breathing, heart rate, digestion, blood pressure....
Posted 11/13/2018 9:09 PM (GMT -5)
Why does the CSA work? Because it treats Babesia and Babesia can affect the ANS .

Bartonella and lyme also can.

My chest/ribs - gasping for air at night all resolved with treatment.
Posted 11/13/2018 9:37 PM (GMT -5)
girlie- great! yeah, my severe air hunger 2 yrs ago also resolved with babesia treatment so I am hoping this bout of chest tightness and breathing trouble will also.
Posted 11/14/2018 10:10 PM (GMT -5)

flowergarden said...
girlie- great! yeah, my severe air hunger 2 yrs ago also resolved with babesia treatment so I am hoping this bout of chest tightness and breathing trouble will also.

Hope it resolves for you...sooner than later!
Posted 11/15/2018 11:23 AM (GMT -5)
me too. I am losing faith a bit and a bit unsure what to do other than keep on the csa and wait. I did just make an online telesession appointment for 2 weeks out for the great doctor who cleared my air hunger 2 years ago-- he switched clinics, was in between clinics- and is now just offering telesessions until his new clinic opens but his clinic is hafway across the country from me and I cant afford to do the trip-- so hoepfuly my issues will resolve before the session in 2 weeks ( been 7 weeks straight so far of this) bt if not maybe he can help direct me. I am so tired of feeling restricted in my breathing and of putting all my time, energy and money into trying to get well. What a waste of a life this is when I feel so debilitated. It is so depressing. and scary.
Also, I saw my local doctor again yesterday. He said he is sure I do not have asthma or copd, and almost sure it is not a lung infection of any kind. He doesn't think I need to do the PFT, he said just by listening to me he can tell there is no obstructions. So that is good. I read this article yesterday talking about babesia breathing troubles: http://jillianaugey.com/index.php/2017/07/17/babesia-what-it-is-symptoms-and-treatments/
and she was saying how the breathing issues do not come at all from the lungs, but rather from the blood cells being malfunctioned by the babesia, Which I sort of knew already. But it is weird that I had bloodwork done about 8 weeks ago and all my red and white blood cell counts were fine-- as well as my iron. I also got tested for lyme and babesia- both negative, but I did read that there are over 50 strains of babesia and they only test for two. I am still puzzling this out. I almost got a telesession for 5 days from now with my good long distance doctor, but he only had a very few slots available and ust as I was in the process of booking, someone booked under me his one session for next week- so now I have to wait for two weeks! But at least I have him to turn to soon. He is the only one I have seen who has helped me with this, even though this is a different presentation of the restricted breathing than I had the other time. If this guy was my local dr and I could see him ay time I wanted life would be a lot easier but I am on the east coast and he is in the Midwest and I already spent way too much money in the past travelling to see him and cant do it again. plus it is hard to travel so far when I am sick. But really all that is wrong s my breathing is tight. I am not feeling too sick otherwise but this alone is completely taking over my life at the moment.

Post Edited (flowergarden) : 11/15/2018 9:30:00 AM (GMT-7)

Posted 11/15/2018 11:25 AM (GMT -5)
things to look into

Staph A

Mycoplasma P

Mold

all of the above can give those symptoms
Posted 11/15/2018 12:53 PM (GMT -5)
thank you I know there is no mold
how do I figure out and/or treat those other things?
Posted 11/15/2018 1:48 PM (GMT -5)

flowergarden said...
thank you I know there is no mold
how do I figure out and/or treat those other things?

mycoplasma - antibiotics - unless you choose a non antibiotic/alternative route to treat the infections.

and I think antibiotics for Staph A as well? Although my father tested positive via skin swab for Staph A and wasn't treated because he wasn't symptomatic...and was just 'carrying' it around...
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