Herxing after 20 minutes on minocycline.

I took 50 mg of minocin and after 15/20 minutes i started to have muscle twitching, headhace, tinnitus etc... Is it posible? Or is it an inmune inmediate reaction creating anti-minocycline antibodies because my body remembers that in the past i took it with moxifloxacin? In that case i would be killing myself.

OriolCarol said...
So Girlie do you think it's more a herx than an inmune response trying to get out minocycline of the system? In 20 minutes some mino can be absorbed into the bloodstream really?

I think for me it could have been a combo of side effects and herxing.

20 minutes is quite quick to kill off the bacteria and flood your system with toxins IMO

But perhaps it is.

It doesn’t sound like an anaphylaxis reaction to me.

you can get less pro inflammatory response with larger dose(like 100mg) - it seems mino goes after bacteria ribosomes first, TLRs receptors(TLR4, TLR2) second

some people get major die off reaction with as little as 7mg of mino

how is your anxiety/brain fog(if any) - also increased?

Post Edited (Dmitry) : 2/2/2019 1:31:23 PM (GMT-7)

My non-medical however somewhat educated opinion is that 20 minutes is enough time for some absorption to happen when taking oral capsules. Especially if your gastric system is full of stuff and they start shedding, kind of like when heartburn feels like a heart attack, but it could be both or either immune reaction or bleb-ing of bacterias etc, the symptoms feel the same, dysregulation, and/or then die-off.

Having said that, I know that Mino is powerful stuff because I took a Mino/Metronidazole combo and had to stop after the 3rd day because it was too intense, and Minocycline is well-known to be a heady antibiotic as it passes the BBB...

And one last speculation about Minocycline causing some women to go into hysterics (a laughably antiquated euphemism for neuropsychiatric manifestations); I believe these were misdiagnosed "hysterics" when the Herx was a sign of it actually working on an infection complex!

I know it is not much consolation, this level of misery sometimes. Just gotta regroup for the next round.

OriolCarol said...
I think i feel worse on 100 mg than 200/300... Maybe it's because at too low dose borrelia is more agressive fue to motillity trying to evade the antibiotic and penetrating other tissues? I'll take 200 mg today.

Borrelia is slow growing and usually not so aggressive. When challenged with antibiotics, borrelia just shuts down its metabolism and waits it out.

Bartonella actively resists antibiotics. I noticed this especially with amoxicillin and valproate. The bacteria did not die from these drugs, but instead the dormant bacteria became active. The infection became much more aggressive, actively invading the red blood cells and causing hemolysis.

Minocycline did kill bartonella, and I found it didn't take a high dose. 100 mg twice a day was enough.

What is valproate Quin?

OriolCarol said...
What is valproate Quin?

A drug most commonly used for epilepsy and migrane, which was found to be effective against certain bacteria
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12755481

I found it to be quite effective against borrelia burgdorferi, less so against bartonella.

The bartonella relapse happened when I was taking clartihromycin, amoxicillin, and valproate. It was resistant to all of that, and I suspect that the antibiotics just made it more aggressive.

I doubt that bartonella has any specific mechanism for detecting amoxicillin or valproate. More likely it just reacts to a change in intracellular pH or some other stressor, and increases its metabolism and upregulates efflux pumps in response. Likely it would do this in response to anything that increases the permeability of the cell wall or cell membrane.

The rifampin didn't seem to do anything about the bartonella infection. I didn't notice any additional herx beyond the Lyme herx that I was having. I didn't get any signs of hemolysis (no bloody snot, etc) and didn't notice the characteristic foul odor of dying bartonella either. The rifampin didn't seem to make the bartonella any more aggressive, but didn't get rid of it either.

Minocycline made me herx. Fever, and achy all over. This has been going on for a month now, but is slowly getting less. I am still taking valproate and amoxicillin, which seems to be okay as long as the bartonella is susceptible to minocycline.

I would not recommend mega-dosing antibiotics to counter antibiotic resistance, as this usually just breeds more resistance. If 200mg a day minocycline doesn't work, try something else.

Today i've started at 200 mg day. I'm tolerating it better than 50 mg... It seems to be what dmitry says and marshall protocol... It's worse to take a low dose than 100/200 mg... Specially when tissue levels are high 3/4 after taking it, i can feel some pro inflamatory action.

Quin, did you say in another post that resistance to doxy and mino have never been reported, but is it posible that in some cases tetra abx alone can't knock out Bart? Not resistance but persistence.

OriolCarol said...
Quin, did you say in another post that resistance to doxy and mino have never been reported, but is it posible that in some cases tetra abx alone can't knock out Bart? Not resistance but persistence.

Yes it most likely won’t be enough for Bart - llmds don’t prescribe just one antibiotic - unless it’s acute infection.
An experienced, good LLMD will not prescribe just mino for Bartonella.

Try Rifabutin?

Trying to figure out why you have multi drug resistant bart? That is odd.

And how you know you do?

I don’t think it’s obvious ... no.
Maybe you got worse because of the dieoff but not resistance.

How do u know it was a relapse?

I took Rifampin for over a year - daily and then pulsed (with other abx)
I plateaued.

Treated Babesia and now I’m taking Rifabutin with other abx and I am herxing... its definitely killing the bart.

Why not try it?

Girlie said...
I don’t think it’s obvious ... no.
Maybe you got worse because of the dieoff but not resistance.

The bartonella was destroying my red blood cells. I was getting bloody snot, dark urine, and short of breath. After a month of taking minocycline this has stopped. I've had some clear improvement on minocycline that I did not with the other antibiotics.

Girlie said...
How do u know it was a relapse?

I was bitten by a cat, and got very sick about a month later. At the time I had no idea why I had gotten sick, and didn't immediately associate it with the cat. I got better, and was in remission for several years, but then it came back.

Girlie said...
I took Rifampin for over a year - daily and then pulsed (with other abx)
I plateaued.

Treated Babesia and now I’m taking Rifabutin with other abx and I am herxing... its definitely killing the bart.

Why not try it?

I never got any obvious bart herx from the rifampin, and I was hoping not to need any more dental procedures to get the stains off my teeth.

Girlie said...
1000 mg amoxy is not high enough.

It was high enough to successfully treat Lyme disease.

Girlie said...
Do you have a LLMD treating you?

I did, but he just prescribed clarithromycin and rifampin, which didn't work. So I am no longer seeing that doctor.