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Posted 9/12/2019 12:36 PM (GMT -5)
Silver nose spray with cholestyramine did wonders for me!!
Posted 9/12/2019 3:29 PM (GMT -5)
I see dr o next week. Initially he found parasite and something fungal (using ART which I have to admit I’m still skeptical).

My thinking is maybe fungal, maybe parasite, maybe just a messed up sinus microbiome. I guess could be bart related too. I’ll post if I ever get resolution.

I do have ochratoxin (17) & mycophenolic acid on my recent Great Plains mycotoxin test. I took it 2 wks after visiting lakehouse, but have been on zeolite/takesumi since July. I plan on retesting (and not visiting lake house) in the next few months. Logically it should go down if exposure was solely lakehouse. Also one would think I would feel better if that was my primary problem. Unless i need antifungal like itraconazole. I’ve taken heaps of diflucan & nystatin and it didn’t fix anything.
Posted 9/12/2019 4:01 PM (GMT -5)
Hi k07!

Well, a few months ago I finally decided to do marcons test, and it came back positive of course, but also showed large amount of E Coli! With all the possible scenarios I could think of, I had never considered this as the cause, although I remember some people had mentioned it. It came with an antibiogram showing what abx it was sensitive to so I went to my GP and she prescribed 2 weeks of Ciprofloxacin. I was warned here on the forum against the antibiotic because it can have some severe adverse effects, but my problem with sinuses was so overwhelming and lasted for so long that I decided to go ahead and take it anyway. It has helped me a lot, really a lot. I still get some symptoms, like that unpleasant tingling in the gums, sensation like they are receding, numbness in nose etc, but to a much lesser extent, really this is just a shadow of that intensity, and my guess is that it happens when I get exposed to mold. I don't get that terrible pain in the jaw and around my teeth. I listened to better health guy's interview with dr Neil Nathan, and he said that marcons is no longer being treated.

Did your marcons test show E Coli too?
Posted 9/12/2019 6:12 PM (GMT -5)
Hi Zimica! Thank you for replying! My Marcons did not show e coli. I’m not sure if they even tested for it. The test was through Microbiology. Results said - staph coag negative - large amount and then MARCONS Positive. I did BEG spray and retested negative. The treatment unfortunately did nothing for me.

Who was your test through?

I have numbness in my nose as well and also my gums. My jaw bothers me off and on and I clench at night.

Hopefully my doc has some answers this week. He doesn’t do antibiotics much, if at all. Honestly, I’d take cipro now too!

I love better health guy. I’ve listened to almost every podcast!
Posted 9/12/2019 6:19 PM (GMT -5)

Zimica said...
Hi k07!

Well, a few months ago I finally decided to do marcons test, and it came back positive of course, but also showed large amount of E Coli! With all the possible scenarios I could think of, I had never considered this as the cause, although I remember some people had mentioned it. It came with an antibiogram showing what abx it was sensitive to so I went to my GP and she prescribed 2 weeks of Ciprofloxacin. I was warned here on the forum against the antibiotic because it can have some severe adverse effects, but my problem with sinuses was so overwhelming and lasted for so long that I decided to go ahead and take it anyway. It has helped me a lot, really a lot. I still get some symptoms, like that unpleasant tingling in the gums, sensation like they are receding, numbness in nose etc, but to a much lesser extent, really this is just a shadow of that intensity, and my guess is that it happens when I get exposed to mold. I don't get that terrible pain in the jaw and around my teeth. I listened to better health guy's interview with dr Neil Nathan, and he said that marcons is no longer being treated.

Did your marcons test show E Coli too?

Also, My youngest gets the tingling in the gums! It drives her crazy. She’s had it off and on for probably 4-5 years. I actually took her to the dentist for it and they had no answer. It has lessened some but she did have it this summer (which I could correlate to lakehouse).
Posted 9/12/2019 6:34 PM (GMT -5)
The numbness and tingling in face and gums for me is usually mold exposure, sometimes unidentified chemicals. My mom gets it, too, mostly gums or burning tongue.
Posted 9/13/2019 4:02 AM (GMT -5)
Yes, I also tested through Microbiology DX. I did it through the clinic here in London and the test I did was "MARCoNS bacteria and fungal evaluation with biofilm". I remember there were different tests at a different price, my llnd recommended this one that kind of included everything.
The results were organism #1 staph coag negative - moderate amount; marcons positive
orhanism#2 e coli - large amount
fungal - no yeast or mold fungi isolated
biofilm (for marcons) - weak 1+

I didn't consult with my llnd about this further but I took the results to a regular GP asking to be prescribed an antibiotic which she thankfully did.

Did you or your daughter take antifungals, I am very curious to hear if someone's symptoms have improved from this. I've been very inconsistent with taking A-FNG, and inconsistent with my diet.
Posted 9/13/2019 7:00 AM (GMT -5)

Zimica said...
Yes, I also tested through Microbiology DX. I did it through the clinic here in London and the test I did was "MARCoNS bacteria and fungal evaluation with biofilm". I remember there were different tests at a different price, my llnd recommended this one that kind of included everything.
The results were organism #1 staph coag negative - moderate amount; marcons positive
orhanism#2 e coli - large amount
fungal - no yeast or mold fungi isolated
biofilm (for marcons) - weak 1+

I didn't consult with my llnd about this further but I took the results to a regular GP asking to be prescribed an antibiotic which she thankfully did.

Did you or your daughter take antifungals, I am very curious to hear if someone's symptoms have improved from this. I've been very inconsistent with taking A-FNG, and inconsistent with my diet.

My daughter hasn’t taken anything. I’ve taken a lot of diflucan, nystatin, and herbal antifungals. But from what I’ve read, it’s usually itraconazole used, which I have not taken.

Will let you know if I repeat test!
Posted 9/13/2019 7:48 AM (GMT -5)
k07,

Glad you brought up itraconazole. I am about 6 weeks in with Fluconazole. My OAT test revealed high yeast and my MycoTox test was moderately high for Ochratoxin A, Gliotoxin, and sky high for Zearalenone.

That’s why I asked about and was given Fluconazole. This is my first time on Rx anti-fungal. The experience has not been what I expected. I expected to be hit hard with die-off reactions and started slowly with less than one tablet. I take 100mg tablet 1x per day.

I already had developed MCAS before starting and started treatment for that as well as adding in nigella sativa oil (and a few weeks later the seeds). The MCAS gradually got better for a while, got worse again, better again, and now slightly worse again.

Before starting all the above treatment, my constipation had gotten worse and I was up to an all-time high of 6 tsp of Natural Calm magnesium. After weeks of the above treatment, I was able to reduce the mag down to 3.5. Back up to slightly over 4 level tsp now.

The only time in the last 4 years I have been able to move my bowels normally unaided was in April 2018 after a month of Candicid Forte.. I had a major expulsion of stuff out of my intestines that I believe was a mixture of ropeworm and probably Candida or something similar. (Looked like seaweed.). At that time, I was normal for about 3-4 days without mag citrate at all. Once I started eating more solid food again, the constipation returned and I gradually had to increase the dosage as time went on.

After I got my latest MycoTox test, I did some googling and found a study on mycotoxins. In the study, they used 3 -azoles and Fluconazole was not one of them. I am thinking Fluconazole is more geared towards Candida treatment (which may not be the main issue), and that other -azoles are probably much more effective on mycotoxins and mold.

I want to ask to try some of the others but may wait until I am out of exposure. I want it to be effective and not develop resistance. Anyway, something to think about.
Posted 9/13/2019 8:10 AM (GMT -5)
I had no issues with fluconazole either. Which I usually have issues with just about everything. I took it for a month. I did have gliotoxin on my realtimelabs but not on my recent great plains. I hope the diflucan helps you. I do feel like the last time I tried diflucan for bladder flare it did not help me as much. So I’ve been wondering about resistance too.

My doc suggested berberine for fungal issue but of course I was having issues (limbs going numb). I have no idea if it was a good or bad sign.

I have the opposite issue with bowels - I may go too much. Do you drink coffee? It can really get things moving. purity brand is recommended by my doc or bulletproof.
Posted 9/13/2019 8:55 AM (GMT -5)

k07 said...

My doc suggested berberine for fungal issue but of course I was having issues (limbs going numb). I have no idea if it was a good or bad sign.

Your limbs went numb only while taking berberine? What kind of berberine did you take?

My impression from Buhner is that goldenseal is not the best berberine for most of what we would use it for. He seemed to favor phellodendron. I used a bottle from Montana Farmacy along with bidens pilosa and kudzu root about a year ago. I later tried their barberry and goldenseal. I found phellodendron to be the strongest, barberry moderate, and goldenseal weak. I don’t recall having any noticeable reactions or benefits symptom wise, only a feeling that the phellodendron (in particular) was a good herb and beneficial for me. I think my gut did feel better while taking it.

Just looked this up and came across a study. Says berberine increases NO production. Maybe this is a clue about your reaction??
__________________________
“Effects on the endothelium

Berberine induces endothelial relaxation by increasing NO production from arginine through the activity of eNOS (endothelial nitric oxide synthase) which is considered a key element in the vasodilation process. Besides increasing the NO level, it also up-regulates eNOS mRNA. Furthermore, berberine facilitates the phosphorylation of eNOS and its coupling to HSP 90 (heat shock proteins), which consequently increases NO production (Wang et al., 2009).”
[url]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6111450/
Posted 9/13/2019 9:32 AM (GMT -5)

WalkingbyFaith said...

k07 said...

My doc suggested berberine for fungal issue but of course I was having issues (limbs going numb). I have no idea if it was a good or bad sign.

Your limbs went numb only while taking berberine? What kind of berberine did you take?

My impression from Buhner is that goldenseal is not the best berberine for most of what we would use it for. He seemed to favor phellodendron. I used a bottle from Montana Farmacy along with bidens pilosa and kudzu root about a year ago. I later tried their barberry and goldenseal. I found phellodendron to be the strongest, barberry moderate, and goldenseal weak. I don’t recall having any noticeable reactions or benefits symptom wise, only a feeling that the phellodendron (in particular) was a good herb and beneficial for me. I think my gut did feel better while taking it.

Just looked this up and came across a study. Says berberine increases NO production. Maybe this is a clue about your reaction??
__________________________
“Effects on the endothelium

Berberine induces endothelial relaxation by increasing NO production from arginine through the activity of eNOS (endothelial nitric oxide synthase) which is considered a key element in the vasodilation process. Besides increasing the NO level, it also up-regulates eNOS mRNA. Furthermore, berberine facilitates the phosphorylation of eNOS and its coupling to HSP 90 (heat shock proteins), which consequently increases NO production (Wang et al., 2009).”
[url]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6111450/

Yes, limbs numb. I first used zhang coptis and then switched to golden thread (which was the one my doc wanted me to take). I started and stopped both several times to be sure it was causing the reaction. I actually had similar reaction with LDN.

What do you think that means? I had found one study that it can sometimes cause cns toxicity so i thought maybe it was that.
Posted 9/13/2019 9:37 AM (GMT -5)
Ok, read a bit more and increasing NO widens blood vessels and DECREASES blood pressure. I already run very low so i’m betting it’s that. I may take it again and then take bp when numb.

What is kinda bothering me is he tests supps using ART so supposed to be good for me. I need to try my best to stay positive and give him a fair shot.
Posted 9/13/2019 10:00 AM (GMT -5)

k07 said...

Yes, limbs numb. I first used zhang coptis and then switched to golden thread (which was the one my doc wanted me to take). I started and stopped both several times to be sure it was causing the reaction. I actually had similar reaction with LDN.

What do you think that means? I had found one study that it can sometimes cause cns toxicity so i thought maybe it was that.

I think it could mean nitric oxide may be a factor causing the numbness.

The study showing it can cause cns toxicity - are you referring to berberine or nitric oxide?

I don’t pretend to understand effects of NO, as I can never remember if it’s good or bad. I found this old thread discussing the confusion over it. HeathersDad had some interesting input.
https://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3604335

P.S. - I remember sandyfeet added l-arginine and felt it was very helpful for her. May have to do with balancing or normalizing levels of NO more so than simply increasing or decreasing NO. That was my understanding of Don’s comments.
Posted 9/13/2019 10:09 AM (GMT -5)
Bob Miller (genetics guy) had me on hydrogen peroxide scavenger bc genetically have issues.

I felt really good when i did daily collagen in coffee. But then got shingles and wasn’t sure if it was from that (arginine) or dmso I was using. Shingles was no fun.
Posted 9/13/2019 10:27 AM (GMT -5)

k07 said...
Bob Miller (genetics guy) had me on hydrogen peroxide scavenger bc genetically have issues.

I felt really good when i did daily collagen in coffee. But then got shingles and wasn’t sure if it was from that (arginine) or dmso I was using. Shingles was no fun.

Interesting. I used peroxide in my epsom salt baths. I couldn’t tell it was an issue, but I may have the same or similar genetic issues. I got shingles after drinking bone broth for 3 days. It’s the reason I stopped trying any collagen treatment and have avoided arginine.

I took Great Lakes collagen a couple years ago and about went berserk. What I remember was becoming increasingly agitated and getting those tingly, twitchy sensations. I wonder if my reactions may have been from toxicity due to NO more so than histamine reaction.
Posted 9/13/2019 10:33 AM (GMT -5)
Just found this in Selfhacked article:

“Inflammation and cytokines increase iNOS, which produces large quantities of Nitric Oxide (as opposed to eNOS and nNOS) [37].

iNOS usually occurs when you have high levels of oxidative stress, and thus high levels of NO have the opportunity to react with superoxide leading to peroxynitrite formation and cell toxicity [37].

Very high levels of uncontrolled nitric oxide through increased iNOS decreases smooth muscle contractions by the heart and lead to lower blood pressure [37].

Nitric oxide from iNOS is more systemic rather than localized where you need increased blood, which is how eNOS and nNOS work.

nNOS is important in long-term potentiation and hence is likely to be important in memory and learning. nNOS is also important for gut flow and sexual arousal in males and females. CIRS/Mold people have memory problems, gut flow issues and a decreased libido [37]. Given the inflammatory environment, CIRS people likely have higher iNOS and lower nNOS and eNOS.

So you have lower blood pressure to pump blood to the brain, but you also have less localized oxygen delivery in the brain, the capillaries, and neurons, where you need it most.”

Causes of CIRS/ Mold Illness: SOCS3, SIRT1 & Hypoxia
https://selfhacked.com/blog/the-root-causes-of-mold-problems-msh-sirt1-socs3-and-hypoxia/
Posted 9/13/2019 11:28 AM (GMT -5)
This should prob be a separate thread now, lol! Lots to say on this. Just fyi - the ingredients in hydrogen peroxide scavenger are vit b2, selenium, catalase, rhodiola, tocotreinols. Did you by chance get gray hair early (i was 19 or 20)? It can be an indicator of too much hyd per.

I took great lakes collagen early on and was fine. The shingles happened when i started vital proteins collagen. Crazy how we both got shingles!

Post Edited (k07) : 9/13/2019 10:36:31 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 9/13/2019 11:33 AM (GMT -5)
In regards to sinuses, i decided to give this a try:
https://lactobacto.com/our-story/

Seems harmless and only involved buying a jar of kimchi! I’ve been eating a little and gargling the liquid. I then just put a little near nose and breathed deeply. Basically like a messy eater eating with fingers! I was worried it would burn but doesn’t.
Posted 9/13/2019 12:38 PM (GMT -5)

k07 said...
This should prob be a separate thread now, lol! Lots to say on this. Just fyi - the ingredients in hydrogen peroxide scavenger are vit b2, selenium, catalase, rhodiola, tocotreinols. Did you by chance get gray hair early (i was 19 or 20)? It can be an indicator of too much hyd per.

k07,

OMG!!! Yes, at 18.

You’re right. Would you start another thread on this topic and link this thread in it? I don’t even know what to title it.
_______________________
Zimica,

So sorry for hijacking your thread like that. I got carried away down a rabbit trail.
Posted 9/13/2019 4:03 PM (GMT -5)
Good thought, Bluejellybean. I was about to post to see if anyone has tried Argentyn 23 for mold. Not sure of how well it does or doesn't work for mold.
Posted 9/15/2019 12:30 PM (GMT -5)
Great video on fungal infections.
For some reason the video picks up towards the end. Start it from the beginning.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7bse2xiodso&t=1151s
Posted 9/15/2019 1:37 PM (GMT -5)
Nebulizing anti fungal medication?

What do you think about that? Putting some Diflucan or any other anti fungal meds in the nebulizer and delivering it directly to your lungs. I mean think about how if you take this stuff orally how the heck is any of that getting into your lungs?
Posted 9/16/2019 2:39 PM (GMT -5)
It sounds weird, but my ND told me to squirt sour kraut juice up my nose three times a day. It burns like heck, but it makes a lot of sense. He said to do that and colloidal silver.
Posted 9/16/2019 2:49 PM (GMT -5)

MA10 said...
It sounds weird, but my ND told me to squirt sour kraut juice up my nose three times a day. It burns like heck, but it makes a lot of sense. He said to do that and colloidal silver.

Years ago, I had a roommate who had sinus problems back home. Her doctor told her to use pickle juice. Maybe it’s the vinegar or maybe it has beneficial yeast? I don’t know.

After this roommate moved into the new apartment, I don’t remember her needing the pickle juice. I do remember her telling me her parents lived in a 100 year old house. Bet there was mold.
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