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Posted 4/30/2019 6:03 AM (GMT -5)
It seems the time has come for me to try something different. While some of my symptoms have improved or resolved, others persist and cause me to remain stuck.

Now, time and resources are getting scarce.

Last year, I resigned from my job. Currently, I'm still unemployed. In a couple of months, my health benefits (from my previous employer) will expire. At the same time, my savings is also dwindling.

I need a job, in order to sustain myself and get well. However, being unwell limits my job choices and income. It's a familiar "Catch-22" for many of us.

Recently, after being turned down by two doctors I was seeking for help, I've had a couple of visits with my non-LLMD primary care doctor, in order to have new rounds of lab testing. Between the delays of getting an appointment, the doctor ordering the lab tests, and my awaiting his follow-ups, more than a month of valuable time has passed.

Generally, I'm pretty good at accepting whatever comes. Regrettably, though, I've been experiencing mounting impatience, frustration, fear, and anxiety. Today, I'll meet with my doctor, in order to review the most recent lab results (which I already have) and to discuss getting on antivirals.

So, before I go off half-cocked and do something rash, because of my impatience, I figured I should get a sanity check from others.

Here are two links to previous posts that provide some history on my situation:

Antibiotics: Why or Why Not?

Question for: The Dude Abides

But, here's a quasi-abbreviated version:

  • 1980s (in military): Mercury fillings, four wisdom teeth extracted, and vaccines/immunizations. Began having migraines soon afterward. Exposures to a variety of chemicals via skin and vapors. Developed Multiple Chemical Sensitivity (MCS). Exposure to gunfire caused tinnitus that would come-and-go.

  • Early 2000s: Root canal wherein dentist drilled through amalgam filling. Had pain for nine years. Anxiety started. Began strenuous exercise routine. Developed extreme fatigue. No longer felt refreshed upon waking. The fatigue eventually improved, but never completely resolved. Sleep continued to deteriorate.

  • Mid-to-late 2000s: Developed runny nose with any food or beverage, no matter if hot or cold. Began having chronic sore throats in FRONT of throat. Voice became raspy and intermittently cut out. A couple more bouts with fatigue, in synchronicity with increases in exercise.

  • 2010s: Root canal tooth (from early 2000s) finally extracted by biological dentist. He also replaced all amalgam fillings with composite fillings.

  • Late 2013: Most recent bout of fatigue. Rapid onset, though it had been preceded (weeks? months?) by multiple stressors, such as over-exercise, too little sleep, low-carb diet, job stress, etc. All tests "Normal." A month later, I developed what was almost certainly walking pneumonia. Tinnitus returned and has remained. I was sick for seven weeks. Given one rounds of antibiotics, then another. Chronic cough persisted for months and would then relapse again and again, for more than a year. I had a variety of expensive (and questionable) tests by a variety of doctors. My IgG antibodies were sky-high for a variety of viruses and bacteria, but most doctors stated those were prior infections, not active ones.

  • Late 2014: Bitten by tick. Sent tick to lab and it tested positive for Borrelia Burgdorferi -- the only pathogen tested. Took 10 days of Doxycycline, had a two-week break, and 15 more days of Doxycycline. For the next few months, I seemed to do "okay." Then, I had a relapse of several old symptoms and developed many new ones.

  • Early 2015: I found Dr. Rawls and went on his "Restore Kit" for four months. Though I started to feel better, I stopped the supplements, due to the cost. Went through a bunch more doctors, tried a variety (over 100) different supplements over time, but continued to struggle. Eventually, over the next couple of years, some symptoms lessened or resolved.

  • Early 2016: A year after my following the "Restore Kit," I tried it again for another four months. This time, there was no improvement. I visited with a Lyme-Literate provider who suggested I probably have Lyme, based on history, symptoms, etc. She wanted to put me on a course of four antibiotics in a pulsed fashion, but I declined, due to uncertainty whether I truly had Lyme or not. My concern (as noted in one of the above posts I linked) was antibiotic resistance, gut health, and my concern about too many people getting inappropriately diagnosed with Lyme Disease.

  • Early 2019: New lab testing. Western Blot (although imperfect) shows all negative, whereas some bands were previously present, though still CDC-negative. My IgG values for several viruses and bacteria remains high, after multiple tests over a few years. My blood values of Carbon Monoxide (CO) are now "Normal," but only due to a widening of the lab range. Previously, my CO was elevated over several tests.


So, that kinda explains where things currently stand, more-or-less.

(I'm sure "normal" people would say that was hardly an "abbreviated" version, but who among us is normal?!?)

Back to the original point of my post: Antivirals

Questions:

1. Would you use antivirals? Why or why not?
2. If so, which ones would you use?
3. Would you use something else, in place of antivirals? If so, what?
4. Would you use anything in conjunction with antivirals? If so, what?
5. Am I missing anything?

I've been hacking-away at this for a while, so I'm going to go ahead and post it. Later, I'll probably edit it and add some of the lab tests that are elevated. Perhaps after I get some sleep. Also, if relevant, I can list some of my symptoms.

Thanks for reading.

Dude
_

Post Edited (The Dude Abides) : 4/30/2019 5:15:04 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 4/30/2019 6:22 AM (GMT -5)
Sorry to hear about your extensive medical history.

Have you thought about giving BVT a try?
Supposedly it can even destroy the HIV.

I personally can't say too much about BVT just yet as I'm only 1 month into treatment. All I can say is this:
- It's definitely a rollercoaster ride.
- It's definitely doing something.
- It's worth a shot. What can go wrong? Okay you can get an anaphylactic shock but that's what the epipen is for ; )
Just don't forget to supplement daily with 3000 - 5000 mg of vitamin C and some milk thistle for the liver among other things.

Whatever path you decide to take I hope you can eradicate whatever pathogens are plaguing you and get well!

Post Edited (insomniaaa) : 4/30/2019 5:26:06 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 4/30/2019 6:33 AM (GMT -5)
I think that all chronic lyme sufferers should try a few rounds of antiviral abx at some point in there treatment protocols. I first used Valtrex, then more recently Famvir. There is a third common antiviral but the name escapes me. Some people just do better with one of these than the others. I have also supplemented with some herbal antivirals like Lomatium and Monolaurin. And many of Buhner's herbals are anti-biotic, anti-microbial, antiviral, and anti-inflammatory.

check out this brief article on the topic: https://www.treatlyme.net/guide/kills-viruses-a-brief-guide
Posted 4/30/2019 6:46 AM (GMT -5)

insomniaaa said...
Have you thought about giving BVT a try?
Supposedly it can even destroy the HIV.

No, I've not seriously considered it.

insomniaaa said...
What can go wrong? Okay you can get an anaphylactic shock but that's what the epipen is for ; )

Okay, now I'm definitely not considering it. smile

insomniaaa said...
Just don't forget to supplement daily with 3000 - 5000 mg of vitamin C and some milk thistle for the liver among other things.

Interesting you mentioned Vitamin C, as I literally just read the following about 30 minutes ago:

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/07/the-vitamin-myth-why-we-think-we-need-supplements/277947

Linus Pauling is mentioned, and, of course, Vitamin C.

insomniaaa said...
Whatever path you decide to take I hope you can eradicate whatever pathogens are plaguing you and get well!

Thanks, friend. I wish the same for you, too!
Posted 4/30/2019 6:55 AM (GMT -5)

tickbite666 said...
I think that all chronic lyme sufferers should try a few rounds of antiviral abx at some point in there treatment protocols. I first used Valtrex, then more recently Famvir. There is a third common antiviral but the name escapes me. Some people just do better with one of these than the others. I have also supplemented with some herbal antivirals like Lomatium and Monolaurin. And many of Buhner's herbals are anti-biotic, anti-microbial, antiviral, and anti-inflammatory.

check out this brief article on the topic: https://www.treatlyme.net/guide/kills-viruses-a-brief-guide

Thanks, tickbite666. I appreciate the input and the link. I'd considered going back on Rawls' "Restore Kit" program (minus the multivitamin), but the cost and time are both significant factors. Plus, I feel like "alternative" methods have mostly been a letdown for me. I've become quite cynical of functional/integrative/alternative doctors, though I know they're not all created equal. I have my issues with classically-trained doctors, too. None are all good or all bad. Wishing you the very best.
Posted 4/30/2019 7:06 AM (GMT -5)
Hi Dude,

As sandyfeet mentioned, I would be looking into heavy metals before anything else due to the mercury fillings and vaccinations. Heavy metal toxicity can cause insomnia and well as other problems.

According to Klinghardt chlorella has multiple health inducing effects.

Chlorella:

Both C. pyreneidosa (better absorption of toxins, but harder to digest) and C. vulgaris (higher CGF content – see below, easier to digest, less metal-absorbing capability) are available. Chlorella has multiple health-inducing effects:

Antiviral (especially effective against the cytomegaly virus from the herpes family)

Toxin binding (mucopolysaccharide membrane) all known toxic metals, environmental toxins such as dioxin and others

Repairs and activates the body's detoxification functions:

Dramatically increases reduced glutathione, Sporopollein is as effective as cholestyramin in binding neurotoxins and more effective in binding toxic metals than any other natural substance found.

Various peptides restore coeruloplasmin and metallothioneine,

Lipids (12.4 %) alpha-and gamma-linoleic acid help to balance the increased intake of fish oil during our detox program and are necessary for a multitude of functions, including formation of ther peroxisomes.

Methyl-cobolamine is food for the nervous system, restores damaged neurons and has its own detoxifying effect.

Chlorella growth factor helps the body detoxify itself in a yet not understood profound way. It appears that over millions of years chlorella has developed specific detoxifying proteins and peptides for every existing toxic metal.

The porphyrins in chlorophyll have their own strong metal-binding effect. Chlorophyll also activates the PPAR-receptor on the nucleus of the cell which is responsible for the transcription of DNA and coding the formation of the peroxisomes (see fish oil), opening of the cell wall (unknown mechanism) which is necessary for all detox procedures, normalizes insulin resistance and much more. Medical drugs that activate the PPAR receptor (such as pioglitazone) have been effective in the treatment of breast and prostate cancer.

Super nutrient: 50-60% amino acid content, ideal nutrient for vegetarians, methylcobalamin - the most easily absorbed and utilized form of B12, B6, minerals, chlorophyll, beta carotene etc.

Immune system strengthening

Restores bowel flora

Digestive aid (bulking agent)

Alkalinizing agent (important for patients with malignancies)

Dosage: start with 1 gram (= 4 tabl) 3-4 times/day. This is the standard maintenance dosage for grown-ups for the 6-24 months of active detox. During the more active phase of the detox (every 2-4 weeks for 1 week), whenever cilantro is given, the dose can be increased to 3 grams 3-4 times per day (1 week on, 2-4 weeks back down to the maintenance dosage). Take 30 minutes before the main meals and at bedtime.

This way chlorella is exactly in that portion of the small intestine where the bile squirts into the gut at the beginning of the meal, carrying with it toxic metals and other toxic waste. These are bound by the chlorella cell wall and carried out via the digestive tract.

When amalgam fillings are removed, the higher dose should be given for 2 days before and 2-5 days after the procedure (the more fillings are removed, the longer the higher dose should be given).

No cilantro should be given around the time of dental work. During this time we do not want to mobilize deeply stored metals in addition to the expected new exposure. If you take Vitamin C during your detox program, take it as far away from Chlorella as possible (best after meals).

Side effects: most side effects reflect the toxic effect of the mobilized metals which are shuttled through the organism. This problem is instantly avoided by significantly increasing the chlorella dosage, not by reducing it, which would worsen the problem (small chlorella doses mobilize more metals than are bound in the gut, large chlorella doses bind more toxins than are mobilized).

Some people have problems digesting the cell membrane of chlorella. The enzyme cellulase resolves this problem. Cellulase is available in many health food stores in digestive enzyme products. Taking chlorella together with food also helps in some cases, even though it is less effective that way. C. vulgaris has a thinner cell wall and is better tolerated by people with digestive problems.

Below is an interesting article from Klinghardt regarding heavy metals.

PLEASE ignore the "cancer" word as this is mostly about heavy metals and what to do about them:

http://www.healingcancernaturally.com/klinghardt-heavymetalchelation.html

http://www.healingcancernaturally.com/klinghardt-heavymetalchelation-2.html

Hope this helps,
Denise
Posted 4/30/2019 7:27 AM (GMT -5)

sandyfeet said...
Wow Dude! Reading through your history is heartbreaking, I’m sorry for the years of ill health you’ve been dealing with. It clearly sounds like you’ve got a whole lot going on so it’s no wonder it’s been difficult to peel back the layers of issues and make progress.

My poor man’s check on whether viruses were at play was taking l-lysine at moderately high doses (as Traveller mentioned years ago), and then fairly recently using l-arginine (which is used by some viruses). Antibody tests seem to be so unreliable :l I’m glad you’ve got something more solid to go on. I’d grab that.

I know that some here have found viruses to be a key part of their treatment - 1000Dasies especially comes to mind. So I would say it is definitely worth exploring!

Clearly from what you’ve written you’re also thinking heavy metals. Have you looked into this? I know it’s a whole can of worms and something I’m not even willing to consider yet.

I’m sorry you’re feeling the stress of needing to make a leap in your healing right now. I hope this proves to be a good step forward for you.

With all best wishes.

Thanks for your thoughtful reply and well wishes. Despite the stuff I've dealt with, I know many others here have been through (are still going through) far worse. Until the fourth and current repalse of fatigue in 2013, I managed to live a relatively "normal" life, as I had nothing else to really compare it against. Since 2013, though, I've had a whole new appreciation for all the things I previously took for granted. In many ways, the illness has been a blessing.

Anyway, in the past, I would take 1,500 mg of L-Lysine on an empty stomach each morning and then 1,800 mg of monolaurin with food -- both as recommended by one of my doctors. I never observed any benefit. I'd never taken L-Arginine as an individual supplement.

With so much conflicting information, it's tough to know who to believe and what to do. Largely, that analysis paralysis is what's kept me in a state of inactivity.

Along those lines, so it goes with heavy metals. I'm familiar with the common narrative. However, I don't have any evidence showing that's an actual issue. I've had a variety of "alternative" tests and two of them were hair mineral analysis tests. All of the "toxic elements" measured were in the "safe" zone -- some not even registering. So, are heavy metals a problem? I don't know. Could they be a problem? Sure, I'm open to that possibility.

My problem (if that's even the correct word) is I want to "know," rather than "feel" or "believe." I don't like guesswork. Previously, I've run after all types of shiny, new things. But, after a few years of that behavior and abysmal results, doing nothing is now preferable to doing the wrong, ineffective, or wasteful thing. Right or wrong, that's been my most recent modus operandi.

Again, thank you for the feedback and kind wishes. I hope the best for you and yours, too.

Sincerely,
Dude
Posted 4/30/2019 7:39 AM (GMT -5)

Deejavu said...
As sandyfeet mentioned, I would be looking into heavy metals before anything else due to the mercury fillings and vaccinations. Heavy metal toxicity can cause insomnia and well as other problems.

Unfortunately, I'm not aware of a reliable and scientifically-validated way to test for heavy metals. The various forms of tests have benefits and disadvantages -- including provoked challenges.

Deejavu said...
According to Klinghardt chlorella has multiple health inducing effects.

I've taken chlorella for years, though not in those high doses. My experience with it has been neither bad nor miraculous. Perhaps a higher dose is warranted.

Deejavu said...
Below is an interesting article from Klinghardt regarding heavy metals.

PLEASE ignore the "cancer" word as this is mostly about heavy metals and what to do about them:

http://www.healingcancernaturally.com/klinghardt-heavymetalchelation.html

http://www.healingcancernaturally.com/klinghardt-heavymetalchelation-2.html

I'd mostly written-off Dr. Klinghardt, based on my readings. But, since you recommended them, I'll definitely check out the two articles.

Thank you for your time and effort to share all this information! smile

Best wishes,
Dude
Posted 4/30/2019 8:00 AM (GMT -5)
Hi, Dude,

I'm sorry that you are feeling particular pressure to get better and stay better reliably right now. I'm sure that stress doesn't help with symptoms. I value that you are a skeptic about treatment and are not one to believe the latest trend without good evidence, and I think it's healthy for those of us with a poorly-understood complex of illnesses like Lyme to feel that way or at least have that voice among us. I tend to distrust new treatments because they usually make me feel worse, and also because my "bullcrap detectors" are much sharper than they used to be pre-Lyme. That said, the research on the placebo effect is staggering, so part of me wishes I had a different attitude!

My LLMD says that, in his patients, pharmaceutical antivirals (particularly Acyclovir) are very well-tolerated and generally produce positive results to some degree, since most of us are carrying around at least a few chronic low-level viruses. This makes sense to me especially if one believes that our compromised immune systems don't produce an adequate response to invaders, so every cold and flu we have come in contact with since getting Lyme could still be lingering inside of us unchecked. Personally, I got sick after a month of exposure to coxsackie virus, influenza, and Epstein-Barr virus (for which my titers are still sky-high), which allowed long-dormant Lyme and co-infections to reactivate. I think antivirals make a lot of sense to try, though for me pharmaceutical ones were impossible to tolerate (liver pain and vomiting), but I"m not a typical case of basically anything. I found antiviral herbs much more tolerable. Many things you already have tried in the Restore Kit and perhaps otherwise also have antiviral properties (cat's claw, andrographis, various medicinal mushrooms, olive leaf, monolaurin, etc.).

Have you considered rife, PEMF, or otherwise using frequency-based treatment for both infections and system restoration? Some units (e.g. AmpCoil) have settings for killing specific pathogens as well as for neutralizing the effect of remaining heavy metals and electrical sensitivity.

Any chance of mold toxicity? I feel like NN's book Toxic has some great answers for those of us who get to a place of feeling stuck.

Something else I have found helpful is the DNRS program, which seems super cheesy but is a valuable tool once you make it your own.

Just a few ideas. I think it would be helpful to know more about your symptoms. I hope something resonates, and gets you back to a more reliably functional baseline!
Posted 4/30/2019 8:00 AM (GMT -5)
Based on your many posts I've read, sandyfeet, I figured you would especially understand my plight.

Of course, I also know that "science" has its limitations. It's like the saying: "Absence of proof is not proof of absence." So, my previous comment that "...doing nothing is now preferable to doing the wrong, ineffective, or wasteful thing..." should be appended with "...until I start running out of benefits and money."

Really, if it weren't for the tight position, I almost certainly would remain locked in inactivity. So, perhaps this situation will be good for me, as it's forcing me to make a decision -- right, wrong, or indifferent.
Posted 4/30/2019 8:11 AM (GMT -5)
Hi Dude, since you mentioned mercury fillings (unless you had them removed) and the vaccinations I think the real test lies within yourself and the symptoms you are feeling. I just connected the dots and it seems like some of your problems occurred after the fillings, etc.

This article may interest you as far as chlorella and cilantro:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmc3654245/

(ii) Other natural polymers have also been gaining attention as potential adsorbents of heavy metals, such as algal polysaccharides alginate [39] and chlorella [40]. Modified citrus pectin plus alginate products have been used successfully to reduce lead and mercury in case studies [39]. Poly(γ-glutamic acid), an edible and biodegradable biopolymer, has been produced extracellularly during fermentation of Bacillus species; its α-carboxyl groups conjugate a variety of compounds including metal cations [41].

(iii) Given that toxic metals have great affinity for sulphur-containing peptides, diets rich in sulphur-containing foods such as alliums (e.g. garlic [42]) and brassicas (e.g., broccoli [43]) have been suggested for effects on glutathione, with hopes for symptomatic improvement and enhanced excretion. Garlic prevented cadmium-induced kidney damage [44] and decreased the oxidative damage due to lead in rats [45].

(iv) Cilantro (leaves of Coriandrum sativum), a popular culinary and medicinal herb, gained attention when a soup was reported to enhance mercury excretion following dental amalgam removal and remains popular despite limited evidence [46]. In animals, it decreased lead absorption into bone and inhibition of the delta-aminolevulinic acid dehydratase (ALAD) enzyme [47]. Less encouragingly, in a recent trial in 3- to 7-year old children exposed to lead, a cilantro extract was as effective as placebo in increasing renal excretion (improvements across treatment and placebo groups were ascribed to improved diet during the intervention) [48].

Several supplements are also in use to address metal toxicities.

(i) Taurine [49–51] and methionine [52] are sulphur-containing amino acids. They are rich in membranes particularly of excitable tissues, and they decrease oxidative stress markers resulting from heavy metal exposure. Practitioners also report using taurine for 6 weeks or so prior to hair analyses, to boost levels and improve detection.

(ii) Alpha lipoic acid is a powerful antioxidant that regenerates other antioxidants (e.g., vitamins E and C, and reduced glutathione) and has metal-chelating activity. Both fat and water soluble, it is readily absorbed from the gut and crosses cellular and blood-brain membrane barriers [22, 53]. Clinical experience is that it must be used carefully as it poses particular risks of redistribution of metals.

(iii) N-acetyl-cysteine (NAC), an orally available precursor of cysteine, is a chelator of toxic elements and may stimulate glutathione synthesis, particularly in the presence of vitamins C and E [54–56].

Denise
Posted 4/30/2019 8:52 AM (GMT -5)
Dude,

In all your experiences with doctors, did you ever see one who specialized in environmental medicine who understood occupational exposures, especially those encountered in the military?

There is a clinic in SC. The founding doctor has decades of experience with environmental health. If you’re interested in checking out that place, let me know.
Posted 4/30/2019 8:55 AM (GMT -5)
Antivirals - give it a try. I don’t know what harm it could do.

I would try both Rx and herbal. Get Buhner’s antiviral book. Do labs before and after to see if they’re working.

Herbs have decreased my mycoplasma titers and IGG chlamydia pneumonia titers. Chlamydia IGM didn’t budge though.

I haven’t had my viral titers retested. I need to do that.
Posted 4/30/2019 10:51 AM (GMT -5)

WalkingbyFaith said...
Dude,

In all your experiences with doctors, did you ever see one who specialized in environmental medicine who understood occupational exposures, especially those encountered in the military?

There is a clinic in SC. The founding doctor has decades of experience with environmental health. If you’re interested in checking out that place, let me know.

Hi, WalkingbyFaith:

Thank you for both responses.

No, I've not seen a doctor specializing in environmental medicine who understands occupational exposures -- including those encountered in the military. If you can give me some hints as to how to find the place, I'd certainly be interested in talking to them. Great suggestion. Do they happen to be in North Charleston, SC?

Though I wasn't too keen on antibiotics, I'm much more open to antivirals. Perhaps my reasoning is farkakte. I doubt I'd be able to read and/or comprehend a Buhner book. But, I'd be willing to invest into one of the Buhner-trained herbalists, if the cost is reasonable. My cognitive abilities are really in the toilet.

Speaking of Chlamydia Pneumoniae, my IgM titers were high, too, back in late 2015. A single round of Doxycycline seemed to resolve the matter, though my IgG titers (for CPn and several other labs) remains high. You've seen the Chlamydia Pneumoniae Help and Treatment website, right? http://cpnhelp.org I have so many bookmarked websites and so much saved information that I've barely scratched the surface. It's information overload.

Sincerely,
Dude
Posted 4/30/2019 11:19 AM (GMT -5)
Dude,

Yes that’s the location. Dr AL. There are a few other doctors in the clinic, but he’s the old guysmile. I have not been there but know people who have. According to the website, he has treated patients from all over the world.

I have seen the CPN site before and did a poor man’s porphyria test once. Test was negative. The diet and treatment for that sounds more complicated than Lyme. I’m like you. I’m not jumping on a bandwagon unless I “know” it’s something I need to pursue. Pursuing anything with these complex illnesses is a major commitment of time and money, things we are all running out of.
Posted 4/30/2019 11:53 AM (GMT -5)
dude 2?s , u know antivirals dont kill viruses as much as inhibit replication?
and can you imagine how much the military could save in pensions if they just inoculated their volunteers with a undetectable tuskegee type of engineered spirochete?
have you looked at your blood under a microscope to confirm what ails you?

btw lomatium tincture did a number on my viral load imho

Post Edited (bluelyme) : 4/30/2019 10:58:51 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 4/30/2019 12:34 PM (GMT -5)
I would give antivirals a try. I felt much more comfortable with them than abx. I tried famvir, acyclovir, valtrex. It seemed I bruised easier on valtrex, but that was my only side effect. Of the three, I felt the famvir did help my fatigue. But I did stay on that one the longest (6 months).

I wanted to mention to you that there is a well known biological dentist who will look at a panorex scan (if u had one recently from dentist) for free and give you a treatment plan if he sees something suspicious. You just email their office. He was featured in the link below. It seems a lot of your health issues started with dental stuff and military.

https://www.betterhealthguy.com/episode51

I think WBF’s suggestions are awesome. Hope you can make a decision soon and that it will result in further healing!

Post Edited (k07) : 4/30/2019 11:40:28 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 5/3/2019 1:10 PM (GMT -5)
“I doubt I'd be able to read and/or comprehend a Buhner book. But, I'd be willing to invest into one of the Buhner-trained herbalists, if the cost is reasonable. My cognitive abilities are really in the toilet.”

Umm.. yes you would be able to comprehend a Buhner book - your mental faculties /cognitive abilities don’t seem impaired to me - you appear to be very knowledgeable and write well.
Buhner’s books are pretty straight forward.

I think a Buhner trained herbalist is a great idea - and not a costly one if I’m remembering correctly.
They do phone appts so no need to travel.

Do you have the list of herbalists Buhner recommends?
Posted 5/3/2019 2:13 PM (GMT -5)

Girlie said...


Umm.. yes you would be able to comprehend a Buhner book - your mental faculties /cognitive abilities don’t seem impaired to me - you appear to be very knowledgeable and write well.
Buhner’s books are pretty straight forward.

LOL!!! I agree 100% with Girlie. In fact, Buhner’s antiviral and antibiotic books are much simpler and more straightforward than the Lyme/co books, I think.

A Buhner herbalist is a great idea if you want to treat Lyme/co with herbs. HOWEVER, because of your background and history, I think you might be better off approaching this from a different angle - like an environmental specialist - to start with. You could spend years going down Lyme/co treatment trails if something else is your primary problem or is preventing your body from responding appropriately.
Posted 5/3/2019 2:59 PM (GMT -5)
When I read the Buhner bart book - I scanned over most of it - but the protocols he has set up aren’t difficult to follow. You can go directly to the page that lists the herbs for the protocol.

And then do all the other reading when you have the time.
Posted 5/3/2019 6:24 PM (GMT -5)
Hi guys what is the reasoning for taking antivirals? I have HSV2 and was on daily Valtrex until I weened off of it in November. I started LDN which ended up really helping my HSV2. I do have a lot of Valtrex sitting around, should I start taking it again in hopes of it helping my Lyme?
Posted 5/3/2019 8:16 PM (GMT -5)
Dude - Could you give us a concentrated list of every symptom you have? Symptoms can often be a good guide to your issues and then treatment of those issues. I have found my babesia symptoms match up exactly with what is published about babesia online. This would give us another good starting point to give advice.
Posted 5/5/2019 12:08 AM (GMT -5)

saraeli said...
I'm sorry that you are feeling particular pressure to get better and stay better reliably right now. I'm sure that stress doesn't help with symptoms. I value that you are a skeptic about treatment and are not one to believe the latest trend without good evidence, and I think it's healthy for those of us with a poorly-understood complex of illnesses like Lyme to feel that way or at least have that voice among us. I tend to distrust new treatments because they usually make me feel worse, and also because my "bullcrap detectors" are much sharper than they used to be pre-Lyme. That said, the research on the placebo effect is staggering, so part of me wishes I had a different attitude!

Yes, being unemployed with soon-to-expire medical benefits and dwindling savings, the pressure to get well and/or get a job is not helping matters. I totally agree with you on the placebo effect and wish I were more of a "believer." Though, I can honestly say, for years, I followed what my conventional and alternative doctors advised and tended to assume the advice was sound and the treatments would work. It was only after years of failed attempts that I became more and more skeptical and jaded. Things like homeopathy never worked for me -- even when I expected them to help. I even watched that dopey movie "The Secret" and gave it the benefit of the doubt. I'm pretty sure the only dreams that came true were for the author of the book and the pseudoscience "experts" in the movie.

saraeli said...
My LLMD says that, in his patients, pharmaceutical antivirals (particularly Acyclovir) are very well-tolerated and generally produce positive results to some degree, since most of us are carrying around at least a few chronic low-level viruses. This makes sense to me especially if one believes that our compromised immune systems don't produce an adequate response to invaders, so every cold and flu we have come in contact with since getting Lyme could still be lingering inside of us unchecked. Personally, I got sick after a month of exposure to coxsackie virus, influenza, and Epstein-Barr virus (for which my titers are still sky-high), which allowed long-dormant Lyme and co-infections to reactivate. I think antivirals make a lot of sense to try, though for me pharmaceutical ones were impossible to tolerate (liver pain and vomiting), but I"m not a typical case of basically anything. I found antiviral herbs much more tolerable. Many things you already have tried in the Restore Kit and perhaps otherwise also have antiviral properties (cat's claw, andrographis, various medicinal mushrooms, olive leaf, monolaurin, etc.).

I'm sorry your particular case has been so atypical and you've had so many challenges. If Mr. Peabody and Sherman were here with their WAYBACK machine, I'd have them transport me back to last January. That's when I resigned from my job. I'd go back on Dr. Rawls' "Restore Kit" and give it at least six months. I'd also have done a better job of managing my sleep/wake cycles, light exposure, food quality, meal timing, and other things. But, no sense fretting about it now, since I can't change it. Right now, I'm not sure about going that route, due to time and money. The full "Restore Kit" is four supplements and the Subscribe & Save price is $242.10 per month. But, I've become concerned about vitamin and mineral supplementation (prefering to use whole foods), so I could drop the multi-vitamin/mineral and the monthly cost for the three remaining products would be $202.50. I could use these in conjunction with the antiviral, I believe, so maybe there would be some synergistic effects. I'd e-mail Vital Plan first to check.

saraeli said...
Have you considered rife, PEMF, or otherwise using frequency-based treatment for both infections and system restoration? Some units (e.g. AmpCoil) have settings for killing specific pathogens as well as for neutralizing the effect of remaining heavy metals and electrical sensitivity.

I'm somewhat familiar with them, but, again, the cost is now a factor. I'm also doubtful of a frequency neutralizing heavy metals -- assuming heavy metals are even an issue. Once again, as you will appreciate, a big part of my frustration is just knowing what's true and what's not. Do I have parasites? Heavy metals? "Toxins"? Without knowing for sure, one can waste value time, energy, money, and hope by chasing things that may or may not exist. There's a lot of "woo" out there. Many ideas, theories, and beliefs, but lacking actual evidence.

saraeli said...
Any chance of mold toxicity? I feel like NN's book Toxic has some great answers for those of us who get to a place of feeling stuck.

It's not something I've tested, but I'm open to it as a possibility. I do have a mild sinus issue that seems to affect me daily, though not constantly. It started years ago, but has been better and worse, over that time. At times, whenever I eat or drink something -- whether hot or cold, spicy or bland -- my nose will start running. I'll use a tissue or two and I'm fine for a while. Other times, my nose will just start running for no obvious reason -- I'll not be drinking or eating anything. At night, when I go to bed and lay down, I'll get some drainage in my sinuses and throat and have to get up a few times within several minutes and clear the drainage. Then, I seem fine. I'm usually asleep in 30-60 seconds.

saraeli said...
Something else I have found helpful is the DNRS program, which seems super cheesy but is a valuable tool once you make it your own.

Actually, this is something I've wanted to try for a while. I know someone who said they had an older version of the DVDs, so I asked to borrow them. The person later said they couldn't locate the DVDs and may no longer have them. That was a bummer. If I could have made a copy of them, tried them, and found benefit, then I would have bought the current version of the program on DVD, in order to ensure the company gets the revenue. I've just spent so much money on things that haven't worked that I don't want to risk any more money. Have you used the program and found benefit? I think fellow forum member "k07" has the program, but I seem to recall she's not used it much. I may be mistaken. Either way, I've watched many of the testimonials on their website and they're very compelling.

I very much appreciate you sharing your advice and ideas, saraeli. Best wishes to you and yours.

Dude
Posted 5/5/2019 1:48 AM (GMT -5)

WalkingbyFaith said...
Yes that’s the location. Dr AL. There are a few other doctors in the clinic, but he’s the old guysmile. I have not been there but know people who have. According to the website, he has treated patients from all over the world.

Many thanks for the confirmation and recommendation. I'm going to call them next week and ask a few questions.

Also, you made another great point in a different post in this thread:

WalkingbyFaith said...
A Buhner herbalist is a great idea if you want to treat Lyme/co with herbs. HOWEVER, because of your background and history, I think you might be better off approaching this from a different angle - like an environmental specialist - to start with. You could spend years going down Lyme/co treatment trails if something else is your primary problem or is preventing your body from responding appropriately.

There's been two instances of an adjoining apartment experiencing a water leak and having a fair amount of water in their apartment.

The second time, the water entered my apartment and I had a few inches of standing water in my kitchen (linoleum floor) for several hours, before I arrived home and discovered it. It came through the kitchen ceiling and required about 45 ft² (4.2 m²) of drywall to me removed and replaced.

Can you believe they didn't want to replace the ceiling drywall? They wanted to use these hugs fans to circulate air to dry the ceiling, in addition to running a dehumidifier to remove the moisture. I about lost what little mind I had remaining. They replaced the drywall. God only knows what's behind the linoleum. I don't really want to know.

I've had the living room carpet steam cleaned, too. I know some are concerned that not all the water gets extracted and the wet padding could create conditions for mold. Considering what came out of the carpet (it was beyond revolting), I'm not sure what was worse -- cleaning it or not cleaning it.

One day, I'm going to move to someplace hot and dry -- like Arizona -- and build a home made out of cinder blocks, concrete, and glass. No carpet, no wood, no drywall. I'll just sleep on the concrete floor and use a brick for a pillow.
Posted 5/5/2019 2:17 AM (GMT -5)

bluelyme said...
dude 2?s , u know antivirals dont kill viruses as much as inhibit replication?
and can you imagine how much the military could save in pensions if they just inoculated their volunteers with a undetectable tuskegee type of engineered spirochete?
have you looked at your blood under a microscope to confirm what ails you?

btw lomatium tincture did a number on my viral load imho

Ol' Blue! I'm behind on responding to everyone's comments, so please forgive the delay.

Yes, I did read that antivirals don't "kill" anything -- just inhibit replication. Thanks for making sure I'm informed.

As for the military, you're right. The stuff we DO know about is terrible. I shudder to think about what they may have done that we DON'T know about -- and, probably never will. I know I had quite a few vaccines and immunizations.

No, I've never looked at my blood under a microscope. But, I'd love to do so. That would be fascinating. Now, I know nothing about that stuff, but not every pathogen stays in the blood, right? What about what's in the cells? Are biofilms in blood?

When you mentioned that Lomatium tincture did a number on your viral load, I presume you mean in a positive way, right?

How are you, these days? I send you my best wishes!

Sincerely,
Dude
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