Has anyone used Pyrazinimide for Bart or know of others that have? My LLMD just added it to my protocol and after reading Horowitz on it, yikes - he says severe herxing, elevated LFT's, increased uric acid levels, must be taken with Rifampin (which crash my WBC) among other things.

It sounds pretty harsh - so I'm curious about others protocols and experiences. thanks all

UpBeetLiving said...
Has anyone used Pyrazinimide for Bart or know of others that have? My LLMD just added it to my protocol and after reading Horowitz on it, yikes - he says severe herxing, elevated LFT's, increased uric acid levels, must be taken with Rifampin (which crash my WBC) among other things.

It sounds pretty harsh - so I'm curious about others protocols and experiences. thanks all

Are you joined up on the "Beating Bartonella" group on Facebook? There was a member that just posted about this old tuberculosis drug asking the same question, few members said it helped them tremendously, I read another that said it put her bartonella in remission.

Dr. H had used it on a bartonella patient when supposedly no other antibiotic worked, when she got on it, for the first time it turn her negative bartonella test positive, she began to respond, and a lot of her symptoms went away.
https://youtu.be/bzu0weofvm8?t=5979

I tried it a couple years ago before I had effectively treated my babesia, it gave me a ton of energy and felt better on it, some herxing, but not severe. Again, before I properly knocked my babesia down, 2 years later, after hitting babesia hard, my bartonella symptoms finally popped up. Herxing is so severe, I'm starting slow with bactrim with other antibiotics like rifampin/biaxin, which then I may follow up with a persister cell drug like disulfiram or pyrazinamide.

Dr. Ying Zhang has theorized that this would be a great candidate for lyme disease to stop relapse, due to targeting the persister cells. As he used analogy of pulling roots out of a weed, to stop it from growing back(hence relapse). And basically that's how persister cells work.

The problem I suspect with lab testing on pyrazinamide, it may not show it works against borrelia persister cells or bartonella persister cells in vitro. As I heard when scientists tested pyrazinamide on tuberculosis in vitro, it did not show it worked. But when they used pyrazinamide on the human body in vivo, it became known as one of the best persister killing drugs for drug resistant tuberculosis.

Why aren't more LLMDs using it, especially when it seem to be a lot safer than cipro and the fluoroquinolones is beyond me. My own LLMD in Michigan said sometimes he uses cipro on bartonella, I told him flat out I'm not taking it. Next visit I mentioned him pyrazinamide and rifabutin, he said rifabutin gives off too many side effects and he just flat out sad he doesn't use pyrazinamide. It's very backwards how the lower level Lyme Literate Doctors can be sometimes, I suspect even they can be stuck in their ways with their own protocols and egoes.

The other 2 LLMDs in Michigan don't even treat bartonella, the one treats longterm with low dose minocycline, the other LLMD who is an osteopath told me to go see his church group for my bartonella neuro symptoms.

A few patients on LymeNet.org specifically told me to go out of state to treat chronic lyme, as some say the best LLMDs are in the New York and Washington DC area. lol I should of listened, but I never thought I'd be battling all 3 B's, as some of my symptoms were mild at times. And even back then, about 8 years ago, they weren't talking about babesia being so common, nor how severe bartonella can be. A lot has changed in those 8 years and it seems like chronic lyme is so hard to treat now, compared to back in the 70s, 80s, and 90s when it first hit. As we've learned babesia and bartonella are a log more common and very hard to treat, along with the resiliency of biofilms, as Dr. H is recommending his patients go on either oregano or stevia with this persister cell drugs. And I know Dr. J likes Xylitol/Lactoferrin as well.

Girlie said...
I read that Pyr and Rifampin plus another med are used to treat Tuberculosis.

Abx combos are used to treat lyme and co’s - ie mono-therapy isn’t recommended.

Yep, very common combo for Tuberculosis, but I heard both antibiotics raise liver enzymes, with some of us being antibiotics for long time, I would maybe think about a safer protocol. I know doxy partially hits bartonella, I wonder if doxy and Pyr would be a safer protocol along with using stevia or oregano. Just a thought...

Post Edited (Charlie55) : 10/18/2019 8:44:02 PM (GMT-6)

Charlie55 said...


Thanks for the info. I am joined up on FB with the BB group but only check in there once in a while, it seems each time I do there is so much drama but I'll take a look see. I do have Dr. H's books and read about the same woman in the youtube segment. It's also where I got his protocol - his book has been a God send at times.

I understand about the LLMD's and your comments. I know that it is a TB drug used for persister cells and I guess bottom line I would much rather do this than trying yet another round of abx that aren't going to help. I unfortunately have a long list of ones that I tangle with.Thanks for sharing your experience too, it helps. I wish you success with your Bart - your plan sounds like a good one.

I'm in the Pacific NW just outside Portland where our docs are far and few between as far as being pioneers or working outside the box for treatments like PYR, Disulfiram or Ivermectin. I will say no one has ever told me to go to their church group though! lol I travel to Dr. H in San Francisco and it's worth it, no regrets - all the money we spend trying to get well at least I feel like to have to travel for this is money well spent. Now I just need to do what he tells me and quite being a chicken

Thanks Girlie and JovaLyme for the input too. I agree this is a great group and I'm glad I found it! I need to get this quoting down, I tried on Charlie55 's post and my eyes nearly crossed so I hope this goes okay.

oregonhay said...
I think you can end up in the hospital with permament damage (kidney failure or death) on dapsone. my doctor wouldn't give it to me, he went on to explain why and I just told him he didn't need to go into details. Just basically it could be really really ... really .. bad for you if you don't know what you are doing.

I had lowered kidney function ( in the 50’s) on either dapsone or daraprim - but it bounced back each time - I pulsed it 5 days in a row for one week out of a 4 week cycle.
I think the dose was 50 mg x1 day