Intermittent fasting

I’ve been experimenting with intermittent fasting lately after watching Neil Nathan’s podcast on the better health guy about cell danger response.

I’ve noticed around the 13-14hr mark I start to feel terrible. I usually try to push past that slightly and then I eat my meal.

For context I first treated mold toxicity and have been working on bartonella since March.

I’m wondering if this is bringing mold toxins out of my fat cells.. or if the body is able to prioritize the bart which is causing a herx like reaction, or possibly the cell switching stages in the CDR as there’s new info coming out about that specifically.

No specific question here just wondering if anyone has any experience around this or any educated thoughts.

I'am trying fasting myself; the idea is to not eat evening meal and then avoid morning meal on next day - this will count to close to 24h fast(dinner to dinner), but its not easy due to the herx increase(as opposed to healthy people who get nothing but mental clarity from fast) so I think its a good thing

Post Edited (Dmitry) : 8/2/2020 5:13:01 PM (GMT-6)

I'm not sure what your experience means, but it's nice to have the information to work with, right?

I unintentionally do intermittent fasting, technically - eating everything between about 9:30 a.m. and 6:30 p.m. I actually feel the best in the morning, before I have eaten, as long as I'm not dehydrated. If I get caught up in a task first thing in the morning, like cleaning or yard work, then I usually can work for a while before eating. If I eat breakfast first, then my energy decreases. I don't crash or anything, just not as sprightly.

I think there is something about Lyme that makes fasting really hard.

there are some studies by the very famous Italian guy doing the age and immune function research in California around 4 days of fasting ( just a cup of soup per day ) and compared with strict Keto diet.

some of the really interesting effects of the fasting was that it induced autophagy of older cells and then when you eat again the body repopulates itself with new cells.
this was particularly beneficial in the immune cells - where old immune cells were killed off and new ones that were not sensitized to all the things the old ones were sensitized to, were produced.
this seemed to reduce autoimmunity and inflammation.
at least those are the highlights that i remember.

the Keto diet had around 60% of the same effect - but could be maintained long term
the fasting was done no more than once per month for a few cycles only as it was arduous.

sandyfeet said...
I’ve been doing short fasts (2-3 days) on and off for the last year and a half. Some are easier than others.

While I was still living in mold I sometimes had tingling on the second and third day and once I had a big outbreak of hives so I do believe that the release of mold toxins can be an issue. Since we remediated that hasn’t been an issue for me.

Sometimes I will have a spoonful of coconut oil once or twice in the first day to help ease my body into the fast as I tend towards hypoglycaemia.

yes. the study i had in mind used a spoonful of flaxseed for fiber and a spoonful of flaxseed oil too i think for lipids with the soup during the fast. Coconut oil is a good source of healthy fats too.

Dmitry said...
I'd question that coconut oil is a good fat - for example lauric acid downregulates interferon gamma - the cytokine which motivates CD8 cells to perform cysts lysis.

All talks about "healthy fats" feel like a pseudo science(without solid backup - just superficial reasoning).

I know what you mean.

here, I am talking about healthy fats in terms of fats that are not industrial seed oils.
these have been shown to be inflammatory - plenty of scientific sources for that - and I think everyone will have to make their own mind up on how much fat to eat and of what sorts.

the thing I find about this type of thing is that every substance you can eat has multiple or in fact many many measurable effects in the body.

if I were to look I could find a reason not to eat every single food in my diet.

instead, what I think matters is the balance of these effects - on your particular body.
to know that you would need the scientifically proven information on the relative magnitude of each of these effects inside human beings - and unfortunately, that is simply not available

We would still then have to interpret how that interacts with your genetics and current biological state - again not available.

so while I think we can take some general rules that apply across the board - eg processed foods are generally not the best for you.
but when it comes to a very specific effect of one food component on one particular subset of white blood cells - with incomplete information on the balance of good/bad effects n the rest of the system i think we need to be a little more circumspect.

Dmitry said...
There is some data that fasting(calorie restriction) boosts immune function:
https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jnsv1973/35/1/35_1_49/_pdf

See the following image:
https://i.imgur.com/yv2v4KV.png

Also macrophages become more abundant with pseudopodia(they extend pseudopodia toward bacteria to engulf and digest them, or can extend multiple pseudopodia around larger “prey” such as dead cells of the body to eliminate them)

https://i.imgur.com/SvLbWng.png

Just don't exhaust immune system with chronic under nutrition and avoid dropping into deep ketosis - 1..2 days of complete food avoidance is enough for like 50..100% boost.

cool stuff. Yeah I’ve just been pushing the 12-15hrs to see what happens. I lost a lot of weight initially and am back to my “normal” weight. Always is a challenge for me to put on lbs so definitely not taking it too far.