Microbiome and chronic Lyme article

Thanks for posting this. Very interesting. Hopefully Dr. Lewis will come up with something to help us.

Georgia Hunter would find this interesting.


Highlights from the article:

“ In a study that compared fecal matter from healthy people, intensive care unit patients, and PTLDS patients, Lewis and his team determined that people with PTLDS have two distinct differences in microbial levels compared to the other groups—an abundance of a type of bacteria called Blautia and a suppression of a type of bacteria called Bacteroides.

Blautia blooms, which were not found in the healthy group or the ICU patients, are usually seen in people with obesity, Alzheimer’s disease, and multiple sclerosis.

‘Not much is known about this group of bacteria,” Lewis says. “I can’t say I have a terrific understanding of why the bloom happens.’

As for Bacteroides, they are common gut bacteria that help regulate digestion, inflammation, and immune responses. They also produce one of our two major neurotransmitters, gamma-Aminobutyric acid or GABA.

‘You need a lot of GABA to feel well psychologically,” he says. “People with low GABA usually have anxiety and depression.’”

thanks for the link

it's an interesting snippet -

i have done quite a lot of research into the gut microbiome and health.

in fact, i came to the world of chronic Lyme after trying everything under the sun to try and fix my gut as i started with Functional medicine and a core belief in that paradigm is that most illness starts with the gut.

in functional medicine, they often state that if you do everything right to fix SIBO, Mobility, Leaky gut etc and still stay ill / or you can't fix it - then you have to look for deeper root causes like Mold, Lyme or some such deeper cause

in my endeavors, i have had my microbiome tested via two leading companies a couple of years ago. in fact both my partner and i did the same tests.

i wrote about my experiences here
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/blastocystis-does-anyone-know-of-a-pcr-based-test-that-is-available.61265/page-2

the bottom line was the two companies gave entirely opposing results and unfortunately as a result, we could not trust either of them.

we had no way of knowing if either of them accurately reflected what was in our samples.

Ubiome - the largest and most well-known company doing this type of testing has since been shut down - but more for financial mispractices than for technical medical ones as I understand it - so not sure if we can interpret this to mean that the other companies tests were any better.

that said my thoughts on this - at least relevant to my partner and I are as follows
( as background we got sick at the same time - around 5years ago - overwhelming fatigue, joint swelling, pain, headaches, radiculopathy, digestive complaints, bloating, gastritis, food sensitivities ( starch, grains, milk, sugars, nuts etc ) skin issues, neuropathies, thinning skin - positive Lyme IgG and IgM)

something is certainly causing inflammation in the gut for both of us ( gastritis, bloating, pain/discomfort, poor digestion, food sensitivities, )

normal courses of antibiotics or herbs for SIBO etc do not cure it - although they may improve symptoms for a while

all other treatments seem to only help to some extent - while this fundamental gut issue is present
anti-inflammatory herbs - eg buhner protocols help
anti-microbial herbs - cause large and long-lasting herx reactions - 12 weeks the longest so far

interestingly
herbs which do not cross the gut membrane to act systemically( eg the berberine containing herbs ) also cause very large herx reactions - which tends to point to infection in the gut lining itself ( lyme and co-infections can also do this)

my current thoughts on this after years trying to make sense of it is as follows:

Lyme and co-infectionsn ( esp Bart - see Burrascano's ILADS lyme guidelines ) infect the gut as well as the rest of the body organs ( i will not add references here - but you will find most of these points well supported if you read around the subject )

this infection causes inflammation in the gut and prevents the body keeping its normal microbiome intact ( the body actually kinda "farms" the bacterial it wants to keep in its small and large intestine - different in each)
when everything is working properly - leading to more inflammation, SIBO may also arise out of motility dysfunction,
leaky gut then arises from the inflammation and this then contributes to systemic inflammation, and all the dysfunctions in neurotransmitters, hormonal systems etc that this can cause,
.a large proportion of the body's immune system is located in the gut and so this inflammation and leaky gut also dysregulate this leading to immune dysfunction / reducing the body's ability to fight and heal the primary infection.

so my view would be that the primary infection with Lyme and or Bart ( i suspect Bart may be a key driver as its present in a large proportion of chronic Lyme cases - but underrepresented in diagnosis due to poor test sensitivity see breschwerdz et al ) is driving an inflammatory dysregulation of the gut microbiome in a particular direction that adds to overall disease burden and hinders recovery.

there was also an interesting paper recently documenting that - damage to mitochondrial in the gut lining from ( in their hypothesis, from antibiotics use - but could just as easily be intracellular bacteria - esp those known for causing fatigue/mitochondrial damage - eg bart, myco, chlamydia ) allowed higher than normal oxygen levels to exist in teh gut as the gut lining cell's mitochondria were not using it -= so it became available for species that would not normally prosper these - and these were often pathogenic or inflammatory.
so this is perhaps another mechanism that adds to the overall inflammatory burden once the gut is infected.
it may also open the door to further infections being able to reside in the gut.

as for its usefulness as a test - ii think they would have to first identify which organisms are driving the microbiota shift and by what mechanisms - as it may be that Lyme itself is not the key driver
( a recent paper found that something like 85% of chronic Lyme patients was infected with one or more co-infection - i think on average several )

I'm starting to think that all of the testing is just too nascent to mean anything. Results differ, and you get numbers but dont know what to do with them.

I'm going to try and do a broad brush "re-write". There's a company called Captain Soup. I've mentioned this before, it was created by a woman Mary Ruddick who had lyme and small fiber like me. She uses her diet as a way to re-write the microbiota. The stuff is supposed to very healthy. The goal is to do a low carb/high nutrient cleanse that kills all the bad crap through starvation. I'm going to eat that for 30 days if i can handle it (ill probably make it 2 weeks), and hit my gut with rifaxamin and oil of oregano at the same time. Hopefully i will kill anything thats down there, and then at the end of that program I will load up on pre-probiotics. See what happens, i dunno anymore but that's the plan right now.

https://www.captainsoup.com

Here is a link to her story. I came across this woman because a friend I met on the autoimmune boards who had SFN, lyme like symptoms and dysautonomia uses Ruddick as her NP, and did the Captain Soup challenge this summer. She's now eating completely clean, and claims that she's 99% healed. She had no reason to lie, we used to text every day, she was in the same boat as me w/ this neuropathy, now she's a different person. So i figure its worth a shot.

https://palmerkippola.com/healing-stories/twelve-years-dozen-diseases-one-sweet-victory/


All i know is i have inflammation in my gut every time i eat, even just sitting here i can almost feel a burn or a gurgle down there which feels like inflamamation. This cant hurt, and hopefully it kick starts something good. We'll see, sigh....

Post Edited (dcd2103) : 10/5/2020 10:06:04 AM (GMT-6)

So you’ve basically done all this garzie if sounds like? How much did/does it help? You must be still relatively sick if you’re still on this forum?

Freaking immune system is tough. I will be going back on IVIG again, so maybe that the combo of the two will help.

I’m afraid of the herxing as well, although I believe it’s more of an immune stimulation for me than a true “herx” due to killing things. When I take rifaximin, nothing happens other than my SIBo and stomach gets a bit better, even tho it’s clearly killing stuff. When I take clarithromycin or bicillin, didn’t feel a thing, def not a herx. But as soon I take Grapefruitseed extract for example, my neuropathy goes nuts. Clearly stimulatory, for me at least has nothing to do with biotoxibs being released. I think this is the case for most people as well, unless it’s a new active infection

Post Edited (dcd2103) : 10/5/2020 2:49:43 PM (GMT-6)

by coincidence, i was listening to a functional medicine podcast yesterday - about a new supplement to target general gut dysbiosis, SIBO and IBS C and Mixed symptoms - if you have these symptoms its worth a listen
( i put them on while doing housework so they don't use up much valuable time or energy )

link here
https://chriskresser.com/treating-gi-conditions-with-functional-medicine-with-dr-ken-brown/

i was wondering if it might help people with Lyme disease and was about to email the manufacturers for their input when a quick google found this page ( see link ) recommending its use in Lyme disease and echoing many of the sentiments above

https://atrantil.com/blog/recovering-from-lyme-disease/

here is some summary info from the functional medicine guy
________
"Atrantil is a botanical supplement created by Dr. Ken Brown, a renowned Functional gastroenterologist. Early in his career, Dr. Brown was involved in pharmaceutical research, but he decided to apply his deep understanding of biochemistry to Functional Medicine and developing a powerful—but natural—treatment for gut conditions.

Atrantil contains three safe and effective ingredients:

Mentha balsamea wild extract. Better known as peppermint, this ingredient has long been recognized by natural healers and scientists as a soothing agent to calm down digestive distress. It relaxes the smooth muscle in the gut and is one of the most evidence-based treatments for irritable bowel syndrome (IBS).

Quebracho colorado. This flavonoid tannin has two functions. The first is to act like a sponge and soak up gas that causes gastrointestinal (GI) upset. Second, it weakens the cell wall and kills the gut microorganisms responsible for constipation, gas, and diarrhea.

Aesculus hippocastanum (aka conker tree or horse chestnut). This ingredient kills bacteria and continues the work of the Quebracho by binding to the enzyme in the weakened bacteria to shut off the production of gases and bring gut relief.

But what impressed me most about Atrantil when I first learned about it, and what leads me to continue to use it myself and with many of my patients, is that it is highly effective for treating many GI conditions that Western medicine has almost nothing to offer for.

These include:

Bloating
Gas
Constipation
Diarrhea
Abdominal pain"
_______

the Lyme community is a soft target for many supplement companies etc as we are all desperate for relief - but there is some science to back this one up

it's not cheap for some natural extracts in a capsule ( around £50 for 90capsules ) so verging on the exploitative

still, it makes me wonder if it's worth a try - or finding alternate polyphenol-based supplements that are more affordable.

i dropped them an email to ask for any specific experience or guidance they could offer for Lyme patients - but the reply was a little disappointing -

basically, the usual 2x capsules 3x a day fr 20-30 days then dropping down to a maintenance dose of around 2 per day

i think they are having to be coy due to FDA regulation - but still, i would have hoped for a little more input

This is the first time i've seen Atrantil mentioned here. There is a functional chiro not far from me that sells it. Was thinking about it a few years ago.....then forgot about it.

I will add this important note on SIBO: Many people with it feel way better when avoiding or limiting FODMAP foods.

Keep us posted WBF!

Garzie, you are hitting the nail on the head, very well read.

Garzie,

Thanks! Sounds like a good response. Only problem is if it works, I would have to keep taking it long term. Any information on long term use?

It looks like flightpath bio is developing a lyme microbiome test and/or treatment.

https://flightpath.bio/approach/

It appears they are through preclinical stage of therapeutic and microbiome program. I thought they may be involved with azlocillin but could be wrong about that. They list hygromycin-a (oral formulation) as their selective narrow spectrum anti-spirochete drug.

Post Edited (k07) : 10/18/2020 6:34:31 AM (GMT-6)