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Post treatment lyme and Covid

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Posted 11/2/2020 3:19 PM (GMT -5)
Interesting article on how post treatment lyme and Covid long haulers are basically the same thing, and autoimmune issue Caused by the pathogen

https://www.healthrising.org/blog/2020/10/31/covid-19-long-hauler-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-autoimmunity-ivig/
Posted 11/2/2020 11:54 PM (GMT -5)
any serious infection may lead to autoimmunity, this is a well known fact. even the common strep throat can, untreated, give u rheumatic fever.

Rheumatic fever can lead to painful and inflamed joints, a specific type of rash, or heart valve damage
Posted 11/3/2020 10:11 AM (GMT -5)
it is interesting

i remember reading that horowitz says that the same inflammatory cytokines seem to be triggered by SarsCov-2 and Lyme - buhner too i think.

i wonder if this could be the link - ie if you raise certain cytokines for long enough or severely enough you can trigger a particularly persistent state of immune dysfunction - at least in genetically susceptible people ( i think there are recent studies showing that a portion of your risk for severe covid can be determined from your genetics )

i read another paper postulating that a slightly obscure signaling pathway that is rarely discussed is activated in the people with severe COVID - it was called the Bradykinin pathway i think.

but also - i think it fair to say that we are living in the middle of a slowly changing paradigm shift in the medical community - from the old paradigm where anyone who had Lyme but has had 4 weeks of abx is pronounced to be no longer infected - to a new one where many many studies now show that these infections are still present, serologically, by PCR, by culture and even at autopsy in people who have had even multiple long term abx.

so while i do believe auto-immunity is an issue and can be on-going after the infection is cleared / in remission - its likely that many many people are actually still infected and suffering the consequences of that infection/infections while ostensibly no longer infected acc to thier doctors.
Posted 11/3/2020 10:25 AM (GMT -5)
Well garzie my thinking is along the same lines, but a little bit different wrt chronic infection being the ultimate problem.

For me, the infection or some other insult triggers the immune system, and once its triggered, it continues on that path, until you can remove enough triggers..

For example, i got stomach sick in costa rica and developed autoimmune neuropathy. But here i am changing my diet and experiencing humongous improvement. Why would diet matter, if the infection caused autoimmunity? I think the point is that the infection triggers an immune response, which is then perpetuated by all these little sources of inflammation. Thats why colds or re-infections with say covid re-ignite the same symptoms. That's why when my gut lining is impaired but I eat too much garbage, my neuropathy flares, because I still have the autoimmune issue. For someone else it may be a different symptom. Only way to reverse it once it's triggered is to remove all sources of inflammation and triggers. Be they infections like lyme, or mold, or metals, or foods. This is what a lot of people miss i think. They keep on with the antibiotics for 10y, w/o changing some of these other habits.
Posted 11/3/2020 11:17 AM (GMT -5)
yep - i am with you - in some cases, it certainly seems to be a persistent state of immune dysregulation.
as in the case of post-infectious syndromes triggered by viruses that do not persist in the body long term - eg SARS-COV-2 and "long COVID"

i was just making the point that in a fair number of cases ( where Lyme and co are involved ) it is likely infection is still present - as the thing is so well documented to be so darn hard to clear.
the trick is of course in knowing for sure which camp you are in - we all struggle with that one i think.

i am with you also on the approach to try to settle it being to try to pull all the levers that seem to help restore the immune system - diet, healing the gut, reducing inflammation etc etc
sleep is a big one too i think
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