Have you taken the vaccine?

potsnpans said...
There won't be longterm data for any of the vaccines

There is, from the common flu shot people take for decades and for all population groups. Valneva vaccine for Covid will use the same tech.

potsnpans said...
Are you thinking it's possible that the genetic material sticks around or stays active for longer than is realized? ..or that it has some kind of lasting effect unrelated to the desired immune response?

We just dont know, do we? That is the problem. The absence of evidence is not an evidence at all...

isitlyme said...
There is, from the common flu shot people take for decades and for all population groups. Valneva vaccine for Covid will use the same tech.

What I'm saying is the antibodies/antigen recognition created from any of the covid vaccines will be novel, no matter the tech.. and I think that is what would most likely be the cause of any unexpected longterm side effects (especially now that we're this far into the game with the mRNAs).

If the Valneva vaccine is attenuated, will there be more of a risk of long covid-like side effects? Sure it's probably still unlikely, but I assume the immune response will differ from the vaccines that target only the spike protein.. and we don't seem to have much of a grasp on what actually causes long covid in natural infection.

Btw if you do some searching I'm sure you can find cases where people have died within a couple days after receiving flu shots (they probably weren't killed by the flu shots either).

isitlyme said...
We just dont know, do we? That is the problem. The absence of evidence is not an evidence at all...

Ok but you're kinda avoiding my question. The mRNA degrades quickly so I'm not sure why there's such a concern about it, specifically being a cause of longterm side effects.

isitlyme said...
Here we go again:

That article was from Jan 5. I don't know if the cause of her death has been made public. It appears it was not vaccine related- unless you think Portugal's health ministry is involved in a global conspiracy and her family has been lied to/silenced for the last month and a half...

Post Edited (potsnpans) : 2/21/2021 3:32:21 PM (GMT-7)

dcd2103 said...


It’s about risk vs reward. An aspirin can kill you, but it probably won’t and it has many benefits. I guess you don’t drive in cars? You don’t use the stove? You don’t eat chicken wings? If you do, then your whole augment falls apart. Are you elucidated now?

Whoaaa chicken wings are bad for you?? What if they have enough hot sauce so Im sweating thats detox. Ok just had to add some humor to this thread.

The Dude Abides said...
I've been using a portable stove in my car to cook chicken wings while I drive.

LOL!!! And . . . . The Dude comes through once again with the belly laugh of the day!!!!😂

potsnpans said...
Btw if you do some searching I'm sure you can find cases where people have died within a couple days after receiving flu shots (they probably weren't killed by the flu shots either).

Of course, but keep in mind that vaccine manufacturers usually deny any kind of causal relationship between the vaccines and the death of vaccinees. This seems to be a pattern in all type of vaccines. Some authors refer to the number of deaths occurring every day shortly after vaccine administration as pure statistical chance and recommend rethinking pharmacovigilance regulations regarding vaccines so as to avoid outbreaks of generalized panic that compromise immunization campaigns - in other words, they call for the censorship of vaccination reports. How convenient is that for pharma? Regrettably, none of these reactions can claim to be absolutely true and change the situation. An alternative, more responsible approach is to consider these deaths as warning signs, to admit that there really is a vaccination-related problem, and to try to answer two questions: why does it happen and if it can be prevented in the future? But as it seems, nobody is interested in answering these questions, be it pharma or most "experts", just stick the needle in, shut your mouth you will be fine and if you die in between, hey it was not the vaccine, no need to research or find a cause, he was fragile, he was elderly, he had commorbities and the list goes on, can be anything, except the vaccine being the probable cause.

Post Edited (isitlyme) : 2/21/2021 5:24:43 PM (GMT-7)

On the other hand, denying that vaccines were the cause, is not difficult at all, right? Something is really happening, but is extremely difficult, yes, why? Because nobody ever really bothered researching why could a vaccine cause deaths. "Its all in our heads", they say, usually what IDSA docs say to us lyme people. "You dont have lyme, you have PLTS. " Just like denying that Lyme and co-infections are the cause of our problems when they say: "there is no evidence, you are fine, all you want is attention, go home". I have seen this movie too many times now

“ The point being this: If the vaccine had been given just five minutes earlier, the Mother would have been absolutely convinced the vaccine caused the seizure. Proving causation versus correlation is tricky.“

So true, Dude.

isitlyme: You know nothing about me -- what I've read, what I've been through, what I believe, etc. So, kindly spare me your screeds. I shared that story as an 'n=1' event. Nothing more, nothing less.

WalkingbyFaith said...
It all boils down to who or what you believe - not to facts. Facts are only facts if they are 100% true. You call what you believe facts because that’s what you’re being told, and you believe it.

Some people simply feel they cannot believe for certain that what we’re being told is 100% true. They wonder are there facts or scientifically based hypotheses that are not being told. They are unsure if concerned questions on the part of scientists/researchers are being listened to and factually answered by those in charge of the vaccines, or if they are being silenced or dismissed for questioning the official line.

Information of various types is being censored on the internet, at least in the US, which only increases suspicions of thinking citizens that what they are being told is not trustworthy.

Like it or not, this isn’t all about science. Politics, influence, and world power are factors in this matter. Many people realize that and base their beliefs and actions on more than just what “facts” are presented in the form of science.

The most wisest words in this entire thread. Thanks WBF! Denise

isitlyme said...
Of course, but keep in mind that vaccine manufacturers usually deny any kind of causal relationship between the vaccines and the death of vaccinees. This seems to be a pattern in all type of vaccines

...it's just that you've been saying people should wait for the Valneva vaccine because it is similar to flu vaccines. So now that I've pointed out how people also die after flu vaccinations, are you no longer comfortable with Valneva/flu vaccines?

Cheers Denise. I believe WBF's comment was directed at me, but I had already replied so I probably should have just zipped it up after you quoted her

potsnpans said...
Cheers Denise. I believe WBF's comment was directed at me, but I had already replied so I probably should have just zipped it up after you quoted her

Don't worry about it, okay? Denise

WBF said...
As far as people dying or having adverse fallout from vaccines, it’s not just about honesty on the part of manufactures. It’s the simple fact that proving causation is extremely difficult.

Sure, and where there is smoke there may be fire. Every death should be investigated in the best way possible, but it isn't up to vaccine manufacturerers to decide if there is fire.. that would be an obvious conflict of interest.

However, my main point has been what we're seeing now, can it even be called smoke?? With 200+ million shots doled out so far, I don't know that it can. At this point in a mass vaccination campaign it should be fairly easy to tell whether or not an unusual amount of people are dying in the days after getting vaccinated. I'm not going to hunt down that info, but I'm pretty sure it would be impossible to hide. Recalling what 1yrinVA wrote earlier in the thread, the global cooperation to fudge data, silence whistleblowers, etc.. it would just be impossible to pull off, so imo it's really hard to argue the vaccines are unsafe at this point. At best there may need to be more consideration given to the condition of the elderly prior to vaccination, but that sorta makes this discussion a derail from the original post. At any rate, I hope it has helped someone make a better decision for an elderly family member or something.

WBF said...
Think about autism. I haven’t delved deeply into that area, but I am aware that there are many who believe with good reason that their children developed autism as a result of vaccines. Yet, causation has apparently yet to be proven. Whether the studies done were honest and truthful, I have no idea. It could be they simply haven’t discovered exactly what they should be studying in order to know.

I think the autism analogy falls a little short. There is more mystery around autism than there is around most of these deaths. We don't know what causes autism, but we do know a lot about how people die. The general public is usually just not privy to all of the information (and rightly so), so we often have to take the word of local health authorities, etc... and yes often times they can't be 100% certain the vaccine didn't contribute to a death, so they use qualifying language "most likely" etc.. and in turn that language gets exploited...

WBF said...
Think about all the symptoms we get from Lyme/co. Have the exact causes and mechanisms been scientifically proven to be the results of the particular infection, or have clinical associations been made by doctors who have treated many Lyme/co patients?

This is kinda what I imagine the doctors to be doing when they seek to determine causes of death that fall within days after vaccination. They'd be making clinical observations.. putting it against patterns that have already emerged, etc.

Btw I hope I'm not sounding too combative WBF. You should know I appreciate and respect you very much!

I also hope I don't sound like a big pharma/vaccine lackey.. that's not me either. When deciding whether or not to vaccinate my kids, I looked at the amount of shots given to kids in the US and compared it to amounts in other developed countries.. it was like 3 or 4 times as many! I generally believe that big pharma/big business corrupts regulatory agencies in the US more so than it does in other developed countries, so it seemed likely to me that what was standard in the US wasn't all necessary. So I studied up and I chose for my kids only the ones that I personally felt were necessary and most likely to be safe. Now we're in a pandemic so necessity is not in question.. and thankfully the safety is so far so good.