Have you taken the vaccine?

potsnpans said...
...it's just that you've been saying people should wait for the Valneva vaccine because it is similar to flu vaccines. So now that I've pointed out how people also die after flu vaccinations, are you no longer comfortable with Valneva/flu vaccines?

I did point that if common flu shots cause deaths, that should be researched and investigated. Lets not change subjects, because mRNA has no long term safety data as common flu shots. I am comfortable with the vaccine that doesnt report several deaths in the same place where seniors live, shortly after receiving it. For now, valneva, being based on the common flu shot, holds promise in safety, but that doesnt mean we should decide anything, before knowing what the trials will reveal. I said people should wait, not just for being the valneva vaccine, based on a more safe vaccine, but also wait for what the trials of valneva will reveal in terms of efficacy and also adverse events and of course deaths. I am not giving a free lunch to valneva just because, but for now, i will wait and see. Moreover, in fact i also think that if an effective treatment is available, perhaps i could choose not to have any vaccine at all. But since the vaccines are everything we got now, we have no choice, people have no choice. So, although i would take a vaccine, a treatment would be preferred, but for now you only have vaccines on the table and people should do choices according to what is in that table. If treatments like the new Israelite treatment proofs successful, i could even quit the vaccine shot. But of all vaccines on the table, i see the valneva being the safest, apparently of course because we have no trial results yet, thats the key in the wait word...

As for mRNA vaccine, again, on a single spanish nursing home, 7 DIED. That is too MUCH!! No example in the whole world where the common flu shot did that in a nursing home, if yes, then give me one example of the common flu shot were so many died in the same place, after getting it. Do you see now, what i mean? I hope so.

Plus, a "A Chinese virologist advised elderly people, especially those with underlying conditions, not to take mRNA vaccine such as Pfizer's, as it could induce their condition and worsen their health". You dont see this kind of advice for the common flu shot. There is no comparison in this respect with the the common flu and the covid shot, not even close.

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202102/1214761.shtml

Post Edited (isitlyme) : 2/22/2021 7:44:50 PM (GMT-7)

The Dude Abides said...
isitlyme: You know nothing about me -- what I've read, what I've been through, what I believe, etc. So, kindly spare me your screeds. I shared that story as an 'n=1' event. Nothing more, nothing less.

Sorry, i didnt mean it the way you feel. Its just since you used the example of an isolated coincidence and single case, without taking in account that its several cases and not only one, in the same place, i had to point out that there is no comparison we can make in this respect. Perhaps you already knew that and i misinterpreted you just for trying to share. Sorry for that.

isitlyme said...
Sorry, i didnt mean it the way you feel. Its just since you used the example of an isolated coincidence and single case, without taking in account that its several cases and not only one, in the same place, i had to point out that there is no comparison we can make in this respect. Perhaps you already knew that and i misinterpreted you just for trying to share. Sorry for that.

I appreciate the note. Thank you. I'm sorry for being less kind than I should have been.

Some of the reports I'm hearing make you wonder if the vaccine is contributing to people's Covid-19 positive test and/or contraction. I know that sounds strange, but these vaccines are an experiment so....

There are many reports of elderly people dying after the vaccine. What exactly they died from remains somewhat of a mystery. We can't trust the news to give us all the details.

Too many people dying shortly after the first shot for none of them to have any correlation seems far fetched to me.

Some of these Covid discussions remind me of a Communist implication: What we tell you is the truth! And don't you dare believe what you see with your own eyes!

Post Edited (ChristianWithLyme) : 2/23/2021 6:23:38 AM (GMT-7)

ChristianWithLyme said...
I know that sounds strange, but these vaccines are an experiment so....

Sure maybe the vaccines somehow caused a covid outbreak in this one nursing home, but not in the others. We're still calling the vaccines "experimental", right? So we don't get to "know" anything at all here, especially if it requires us changing our minds.

ChristianWithLyme said...
Some of these Covid discussions remind me of a Communist implication: What we tell you is the truth! And don't you dare believe what you see with your own eyes!

Just to make sure you're aware:

- RT = Russia Today
- GlobalTimes operates under the Chinese Communist Party (CCP)

Seems silly to keep pounding away with this "Communist" disinformation angle when if the CCP is pushing anything, they are pushing the idea that the Western vaccines are not safe.

Post Edited (potsnpans) : 2/23/2021 9:31:04 AM (GMT-7)

potsnpans said...

ChristianWithLyme said...
Some of these Covid discussions remind me of a Communist implication: What we tell you is the truth! And don't you dare believe what you see with your own eyes!
Just to make sure you're aware:

-RT = Russia Today
-GlobalTimes operates under the Chinese Communist Party (CCP)

What is your problem being from China or Rússia? At least, Its an independent view, free from western conflict of interests of western big pharma, so its even better to check views with evidences, wish they provide and that we confirmed on other westerm sources too. You call it disinformation, why is that, when all the information they provide on their articles is confirmed? What is silly is taking for granted the safety of mRNA and ignoring the possibility of being the cause of deaths in vulnerable people.

And just for the record, it seems that the one who is disinformed is you, because China bought millions of the pfizer vaccine. So the idea that China is pushing the western vaccines not being safe is only in your imagination realm.

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020-12-16/china-secures-100-million-doses-of-biontech-shot-to-boost-supply

potsnpans said...

I don't see how the article can possibly be understood in the way that you understand it.

"If someone doesn't use reason or logic to get to a conclusion, you're not going to be able to use reason or logic to talk them out of that conclusion"

I showed you several times, that virologists, Chinese, French and other countries have cautioned for the fact that this mRNA may contribute for the deaths of vulnerable people like the elderly, so why dont you complain to these independent specialists? Dont blame me for choosing their advice, wish for me are credible, based on what happened. Other "experts" who dismiss what happened, i dismiss them too because they purposely ignoring the harm the vaccine might do.

Look, this is nothing against you, i am saying it to everyone else. I respect your ideas and i know you give valuable advise in this forum in other issues, as i know you also gave to me, in other problems. But i cannot agree with this, sorry for that.

Take care

Post Edited (isitlyme) : 2/23/2021 8:12:48 AM (GMT-7)

Currently pregnant and opting to wait. I’ll give it until November / December and see how it’s all going.

There are also studies that show decent efficacy for the first shot. I wonder if you can limit the toxins but choosing not to get shot two and stick with shot one

French company Valneva, meanwhile, is working on an inactivated vaccine using the whole virus that might have advantages over those already approved (Pfizer, Moderna, mNRA, Thomas Lingelbach, the company’s chief executive officer, says. Because it uses the complete virus, the Valneva vaccine enables the immune system to potentially form a response to all possible epitopes—a term for the portions of the virus’s proteins that the immune system can recognize. Valneva also combines the inactivated virus with an adjuvant, a chemical substance that boosts the body’s immune response. What’s more, Valneva has experience producing multivalent vaccines—those that incorporate multiple virus strains in a single shot—and it could potentially produce one for SARS-CoV-2 too.

ChristianWithLyme said...
"All 78 residents at a nursing home in central Spain have tested positive for Covid-19 after being given their first dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, and at least seven people have died, staff confirmed on Monday.

ADDITIONAL CONTEXT: There is currently no indication that the vaccine played any role in the deaths, and health authorities have taken pains to stress that receiving the injection does not prevent an individual from falling ill. This analysis by Lead Stories demonstrates that it is “statistically inevitable” that some people who receive Covid-19 jabs will get sick and die from a range of health issues, and this is not evidence of a causal relationship."

https://www.rt.com/news/514303-deaths-pfizer-vaccine-covid-spain/

"All 78 residents...tested positive"

I'm quite sure that is not normal but then we're told that there is no indication vaccine played ANY role in the deaths.

So youre implying that the vaccine doesnt work then? 10s of billions of dollars to develop, massive phase 3 trials, hundreds of millions of doses administered world wide, dramatically falling case counts as it takes effect, and it doesnt work? And you think we're just figuring it out now that it's not effective, because of what happened at a nursing home in central spain?

Or are you arguing that it actually caused them to get covid? In which case some 200m people across the globe who have gotten the vaccine should have also succumbed, no? Meanwhile the case counts fall?

What's the actual argument? Where's the logic?

Post Edited (dcd2103) : 2/23/2021 1:24:35 PM (GMT-7)

isitlyme said...
Because it uses the complete virus, the Valneva vaccine enables the immune system to potentially form a response to all possible epitopes—a term for the portions of the virus’s proteins that the immune system can recognize. Valneva also combines the inactivated virus with an adjuvant, a chemical substance that boosts the body’s immune response.

As I said earlier, more epitopes may mean more possible triggers for autoimmunity. At this point that is more experimental wrt longterm safety than synthetic mRNA is. Pfizer, Moderna, and Astrazeneca only use the spike protein, and despite what Valneva exec. quoted says, less immunogenic epitopes may actually be a good thing.

Adjuvants are not necessarily good news for Lymies either. Waiting for the Valneva vaccine doesn't make a whole lotta sense to me.

isitlyme: I will check out your link when I have a chance.. I was thinking of molecular mimicry as a possible cause for autoimmunity (with or without epitope spreading).

I'm not going to pretend I understand this at a high level, but it's the long covid stuff that scares me.. and that happens when people are naturally infected with the whole virus. Sure it may not be a problem with the attenuated Valneva vaccine, and hopefully the trials answer that question confidently.. but why wait around to find out?

Pretty sure there are no adjuvants in the mRNAs. Not sure about Oxford/Astrazeneca

isitlyme said...
this type of adjuvants in both mRNA vacs, are suspected to be the major cause of allergic reactions in several people

We've long since passed the stage where we need to hypothesize or speculate about an unusually high risk:

"...rare cases of anaphylaxis were reported as well, coming out to 4.5 cases per million doses administered, which the CDC says is a rate comparable with those of other vaccines"

https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/coronavirus/cdc-report-shares-safety-data-on-covid-19-vaccines

Maybe those with lots of allergies will still want to proceed with caution.

To be clear, I don't know what harm the vaccine does, but I'm sure they kill some people and injure others. It is also clear that the current vaccines are largely an experiment. Another factor I keep in mind is that we don't need a vaccine because we have effective treatments, so any deaths from the vaccine is too many.

dcd2103, I don't think it's just the vaccines that are causing cases to fall, as they have been dramatically falling since early January. Also, just because some people are injured and killed by vaccines does not mean all are.

Does the vaccine work?

We have a virus with survival rate of greater than 99% (w/o treatment) and most likely a full recovery rate of greater than 99% of infection totals.

We have treatments (leaving aside the cheap prevention and early treatment protocols).

We have a vaccine.

Yet we're still told we have to wear a mask, social distance, and can't go back to our normal lives (including those who have had Covid and have had the vaccine).

Do you think the vaccine works?