HealingWell
Search Close Search
☰

can yeast cause biotoxin illness; best treatment

Support Forums
>
Lyme Disease
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply
❬ ❬ Previous Thread |Next Thread ❭ ❭
Posted 4/26/2021 4:42 PM (GMT -5)
Hi guys,

First let me summarize my test results, then I'll ask my questions.

My RTL mycotoxin report (2y ago when my illness first began and i had it tested) was perfectly clean. My shoemaker lab tests showed normal c4a, low VIP (13) and low VEGF (30). Most of the other markers like MMP9 ACTH, ADH etc were normal.

My recent stool test showed low detectable levels of yeast, and blastocysts hominis. Hydrogen SIBO tests positive.

OAT test shows 3 different fungal markers, no bacterial dysbiosis markers (odd):
https://ibb.co/qds4kfk

My questions are:

1.) Based on that OAT test, those markers say theyre for aspergillus, which is mold. But then when I google them it says that yeast can also produce these markers. Can candida cause these markers (5-Hydroxymethyl-2-furoic and Furan-2,5-dicarboxylic) to go positive, or do I have a mold problem? I really dont think i have mold based on my symptoms and GPL mycotoxins test and the fact that I've since moved and symptoms remain.

2.) Can candida/yeast cause biotoxin illness? Will candida make shoemaker markers like vegf/VIP go down? Will it cause CIRS? When I google biotoxin and cirs and candida, very little comes up. The internet literature makes it appear that biotoxin illness is almost exclusively a mold problem, even though you'd assume candida may have similar effects.

3.) Can cholestyramine be used for Candida? Or is this specifically for mold? What do people think about starting with a course of nystatin over difulcan? I'm very sensitive to things, so would prefer to go as least invasive as possible.
Posted 4/26/2021 5:24 PM (GMT -5)
"nystatin over difulcan?"

There will be different experiences on these from those who've used both.

Nystatin is prob a good starter for most..........but it was not nearly as successful as Diflucan in my experience.
Posted 4/26/2021 5:25 PM (GMT -5)
Get a Candida Albicans quest blood test.
Posted 4/26/2021 5:27 PM (GMT -5)
Thanks Astro I will do that. Is it an antibody test? Or pcr/dna?
Posted 4/26/2021 6:24 PM (GMT -5)
dcd,

Good but complex questions. A lot to consider in this post. I might make multiple posts here in response.

1. Was this Great Plains? Did the lab report say this is from Aspergillus?

I definitely have Aspergillus exposure and mycotoxins. However, on my GP OAT test, the only high yeast marker I had was arabinose. The lab results only said anything in that list was related to yeast/fungal. My lab report didn’t say anything about mold.

2. Not sure, but yeast/Candida can definitely cause bad symptoms. Some believe Candida can produce gliotoxin (as does Aspergillus). If that is true, then logically, those who have trouble clearing mold/mycotoxins would likely have similar situation with Candida/yeast overgrowth.

3. CSM can be used for multiple biotoxins. If you want to try it, it would seem reasonable to do so, regardless of the source. Long term use (more than a few months) could adversely affect your cholesterol or nutrition.depending on how/when you take it. It is a cholesterol lowering drug.

My doc started me with Fluconazole (daily). Then I added Nystatin. I was supposed to take them together but I chickened out. I took Fluconazole for almost 2 months before starting Nystatin. I had no noticeable herxes with Fluconazole, but I did with Nystatin. I also started feeling symptom relief with Nystatin. I, personally, think anybody with any suspicion of mold (past or present), yeast, or GI issues should be allowed to use these two for at least a few months to see if they get any benefit. Just be sure you are taking probiotics plus Sacchromyces boullardii (yeast) daily while on antifungals. Orthomolecular has a good S. Boullardii supplement.
Posted 4/26/2021 6:26 PM (GMT -5)
You didn’t identify the timing of all the tests.

Mycotoxins - Real-Time Labs, 2 years ago

Stool Analysis - lab? you said this was recently

OAT - lab? when?
Posted 4/26/2021 6:59 PM (GMT -5)
Great info, thank you WBF! Great info! I will ask my dr about nystatin and CSM. Which would you start with?

The OAT test was Great Plains. You can see I attached a picture. My arabinose was high but so were 2 others. Underneath the two others if says aspergillus in parentheses, as if these acids indicate aspergillus. But then when I googled both of them it makes it sound like they can be caused by mold or other fungi like yeasts. So a bit confusing. It may just point to Candida?

Stool analysis was in January 2021 the oat test was maybe early March 2021
Posted 4/26/2021 7:02 PM (GMT -5)
I just checked my VEGF.

When I was first tested for CIRS in 2016, my Labcorp VEGF, plasma was 16. Labcorp range was 0-115.

My last VEGF was in Aug 2020 with Labcorp. This time the report says VEGF, serum, and my result was 125. The Labcorp range was changed to 62-707.
Posted 4/26/2021 7:12 PM (GMT -5)
Oh, great! I just looked at the photo. That’s very interesting. They have changed their report and even the ranges. That’s really weird. All my yeast metabolites were fine except arabinose, which was 88. I also noticed one of the markers in the photo has Fusarium listed below it. I had outrageously high levels of Zearalenone from Fusarium, but this OAT marker was normal on my test. My OAT and MycoTox tests were both with Great Plains and done at the same time.

Is there a summary explanation at the end for different markers? Does yours say anything about the significance of arabinose specifically?
Posted 4/26/2021 7:24 PM (GMT -5)
I would start with the antifungals. From what I understand, Fluconazole works systemically. Nystatin works in the GI tract. I would start with one and then add the other. I would wait on the CSM. You could get a Rx for CSM and have it ready. If you get a lot if die-off from the antifungals, then you could add the CSM.

Many prefer compounded pure CSM, which is crazy expensive. You could get just a small amount and microdose it. Many cannot tolerate the Shoemaker doses anyway.

If you try any or all of this, pay close attention to your symptoms and responses and take good notes. You might be surprised by what happens. I have had a lot of neuro involvement, and discovered that yeast/mold in the gut (and possibly ropeworm) have apparently been big drivers of some of those neuro symptoms.

Post Edited (WalkingbyFaith) : 4/26/2021 6:27:31 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 4/27/2021 12:27 AM (GMT -5)

dcd2103 said...
Thanks Astro I will do that. Is it an antibody test? Or pcr/dna?

Antibody blood test, insurance covered.

Even though my symptoms were G.I. tract-based It was detectable by a blood test.

I could actually feel the die off from the diflucan, It made me hot and sweaty at times. Nystatin just didn’t do much after awhile.

I was treated with these medicines on three different occasions, and I have treated candida with herbs on my own before as well. This was a problem while on antibiotics but I had digestive candida even before antibiotics. Of course ending antibiotics made candida occurrence much much less , And then cleaning up my diet improved things even more.

**Every time I'd get Can Albicans, the symptoms would get worse.. the last round with this Nystatin was a complete waste of time in my case. It was much weaker than Diflucan by a long shot. Keep in mind I was testing, not guessing, knew what I had. **
.

Post Edited (astroman) : 4/29/2021 10:54:22 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 4/28/2021 7:03 AM (GMT -5)
i think the OAT test lists those metabolites as associated with those fungal species because they are well documented to make them

however in the world of microbes things are far from cut and dried

in fungal species as well as other microbes there is a great deal of heterogeneology between individual species and strains - to the point that naming things gets a bit pointless - as the key question in terms of how they interact with humans become more - "what genes are active" rather than " what is the organism called" - they mutate constantly and some also swap genes from other species.

I mention it here as a fungal species generally fitting under the heading of this genus or that (eg candida) could be producing some toxin or another that is atypical or not yet documented for that family. scientists are forever looking under rocks and doorknobs and plugholes etc to find new strains of stuff that makes some new candidate antibiotic substance for the same reasons.

there are also many different candida species - apart from C. albicans

alternately it could be that these metabolites are formed by some other species other than aspergillus or candida - and the test is just saying there are metabolites present that are associated with those types of fungal species ( but not exclusively) - and in concentrations higher than expected

regarding the levels - my understanding of how great plains reports its results is the orange block represents 1 standard deviation from the mean ( 68% of results fall within ) - the error bar type mark is 2 standard deviations ( 82% or results fall within) - in your results - metabolises 2 and 4 appear to be around 8 standard deviations away from the mean - this looks like an unusually high result - ie much less than 1% of the population tested - as a result i does look to me like something well worth going after.

if the mold theories are to be believed this can be systemic as well as just in the gut - but on this front i am not sure what to believe - i think if it were me would go for the gut only antifungals first and depending on response go for the systemics as a second or additional step.

makes me want to test the OAT again

as ever - good luck and keep us posted
Posted 4/29/2021 5:49 PM (GMT -5)
These articles were very helpful daisies!

I actually just met w an immunologist who specializes in GI disorders. He thinks yeast is a big problem for me and said that he finds the SIBO falls into line when the Candida does.

Wants me to go on an anti Candida diet + use nystatin.

Did you find you guys needed to do the diet as well? Or the antifungals were enough?

I just finished 6m of intense dieting and not excited about going back on another one, when the first 6m didn’t cure it
Posted 4/29/2021 9:11 PM (GMT -5)
I was helped by the antifungals. I am terrible with any kind of diet. I basically eat based on how I feel, which is not a good thing. The main thing with Candida is no sugar. Most Candida diets say no fruit or starchy vegetables, at least in the beginning. Since you were able to do keto, I doubt you will have any issues sticking to a diet. I don’t think Candida diets are that long term. Maybe a couple months.
Posted 5/2/2021 9:28 PM (GMT -5)
dcd,

I have been reading a bunch of stuff on the Great Plains Lab website. I have read through several articles and some Q&A’s. One thing I came across was regarding those mold markers on the OAT test. They are saying these indicate mold has colonized in the body. Here’s some Q&A’s about it:

“Q: Would you use the Antifungal if the patient does not have colonized mold?

A: Due to the lack of colonization testing for every mold it is difficult to determine if the person is or isn’t colonized even with the OAT. Because mycotoxins come from mold it is safe to assume mold is in the persons body if mycotoxins are being excreted, especially if they are no longer being exposed. If this is the case, or if the person plateaus in detox, antifungals are the next step.

Q: Are you saying you must use antifungal drugs with binders to rid the body of the mycotoxins that have colonized?

A: You must address the mold with antifungal therapy. It does not have to be drugs. You can use herbs and nutraceuticals.”

This was copied from this article - https://www.greatplainslaboratory.com/gpl-blog-source/2021/05/oattox-shaw?rq=arabinose%20
Posted 5/3/2021 6:24 AM (GMT -5)

WalkingbyFaith said...
dcd,

I have been reading a bunch of stuff on the Great Plains Lab website. I have read through several articles and some Q&A’s. One thing I came across was regarding those mold markers on the OAT test. They are saying these indicate mold has colonized in the body. Here’s some Q&A’s about it:

“Q: Would you use the Antifungal if the patient does not have colonized mold?

A: Due to the lack of colonization testing for every mold it is difficult to determine if the person is or isn’t colonized even with the OAT. Because mycotoxins come from mold it is safe to assume mold is in the persons body if mycotoxins are being excreted, especially if they are no longer being exposed. If this is the case, or if the person plateaus in detox, antifungals are the next step.

Q: Are you saying you must use antifungal drugs with binders to rid the body of the mycotoxins that have colonized?

A: You must address the mold with antifungal therapy. It does not have to be drugs. You can use herbs and nutraceuticals.”

This was copied from this article - https://www.greatplainslaboratory.com/gpl-blog-source/2021/05/oattox-shaw?rq=arabinose%20

Thanks WBF! I read through this, very interesting. I guess I'm still confused, however, because it doesnt mention which markers he's using. Seems like he may be referring to markers on the mycotox test, he doesnt really specificy.

I think I may just have to order the mycotox test. Very frustrating as its not easy in new york. I have to have it mailed ot my parents place in florida, they have to mail it to me, i have to mail it back to them, they have to mail it to the lab.
Posted 5/3/2021 7:48 AM (GMT -5)
It’s my understanding he’s talking about # 2, 4, 5, 6, and 9 under the yeast/fungal markers.

I just re-read what I posted and something jumped out at me. This part (in bold):

“Because mycotoxins come from mold it is safe to assume mold is in the persons body if mycotoxins are being excreted, especially if they are no longer being exposed. If this is the case, or if the person plateaus in detox, antifungals are the next step.”

Did you do an ERMI test on your home? Do you work outside the home? The ERMI is really the only way to verify what you’re being exposed to and the comparative levels. Knowing whether ir not you are in ongoing environmental exposure is necessary. You can treat all you want to, but if environmental exposure is ongoing, then you’re perpetually bailing water out of a boat that has a hole in it.

Oddly, all those yeast markers were normal on my OAT test. It’s possible my Mycotoxins are from external exposure and not internal colonization. That’s a possibility if those articles are true and accurate in their assessment. I only had high arabinose. In another article on the lab site, I read that arabinose has for many years been considered indicative of invasive Candida. My antibodies for Candida, though, have been negative. I have no thrush, athlete’s foot, vaginal yeast infections, etc.

However, I have expelled mass amounts of greenish yellow stringy seaweed looking stuff in my stool on more than one occasion. It looks more in shape like the larger brown ropeworm masses. I have often wondered whether it was actually early stage ropeworm, Candida, or other yeast. Whatever it is, it attaches to the walls of my intestines. I believe invasive Candida is described as being in hyphal form and grows into or through the walls of the intestines.
Posted 5/3/2021 7:52 AM (GMT -5)
Interesting, so you have mold exposure but your markers were normal. I did have what i think may have been black mold in my shower after i put a wooden stool in there for me to sit on. But that was recent and was not there when i first got sick. I was also living in a different place. My RTL mycotoxin test at the time was normal. I think i just have to repeat the test.

I've been using NAC lately and I think it's causing a headache and chest tightness at times, very odd
Posted 5/3/2021 8:02 AM (GMT -5)
Ahh. Yes, if you’re living in a different place than you were when you did the RTL test, then yes, I would do a new MycoTox test. You might want to do Great Plains MycoTox this time, since you just did their OAT test.
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply