Lets compare CBCs

interesting - i have monolaurin on my list to try also - but will defo go carefully having read your accounts.

i too have been a little surprised by the fact that herbs that caused me to flare terribly when i have taken them at even a fraction of a full dose before ( ie as part of my earlier more optimistic and impatient "Short and Hard" type treatments ) can now be tolerated at even double dose.

so this idea of building up tolerance does work - in some cases i now tolerate 20x as much as i could without any obvious herx like effect - but it has taken a long time steadily increasing and probably having many many minor herx like reactions along the way.

i am no badass though - this process took over 12 months i think for the co-infection herbs. i did not tough it out intentionally through any major herxes - i had tried that in the past and it just didn't work - my goal this time was slow and long and to be able to continue to function throughout.

for the Methylene Blue its more like 25mg for 1 month, 50mg for 6 weeks, then 75mg - probably for a month and then hopefully 100mg

other conventional abx i have been able to go straight to normal doses - doxy, rifampicin, axzithro etc - did feel herx effects - lasting 4-6weeks from each but manageable

i read lots of accounts of people being super super sensitive to meds and herbs - only tolerating a drop of this or a tiny spec of that - so its a common phenomenon.
i am sensitive to a lot of stuff - but not at the extreme end of what some people describe

still i do suspect based on my own experience that most could build up slowly over time - but clearly every different agent has a different degree of flare inducing potential - and it does take time -

which is kind of at odds with the miracle responses that we all read about and secretly hope for with these treatments

some i can start at 25% or 50% or in the case of pharma ABX 100% of target dose - others i have to be very careful of and start at 1/20th

typically i find a herx will occur within 3 days of starting if i am going to get much of one - up to a week if its mild - so i often step every 4 days or 7 days when ramping up.

i am glad you reported on the flares with monolaurin - it is on my list and believing it to be fairly well tolerated by most i would likely have started out at around 25%!!

wishing you all the very best success with all your continued experiments !

All the different reactions and test scores is real interesting. Dcd's reaction to Monolaurin is different than mine, as I can take the 8 at a time 8-10 pellets at a time right now, yet I'm extremely sensitive to meds and some herbs. And I am slowly ramping up as I took 8 this morning then 11 later in the day.

When I tried the Rawl's herbs, a few years ago, I really struggled and my stomach couldn't handle something in it. Stomach hurt so bad I struggled to eat. And I'd try the Buhner herbs, but so many are contradicted by kidneys. I am going to try hottyunia (spelling?) and start out low, low.

Maybe the blood counts do play a role because of what is going on different in each of our bodies that doctors cannot figure out? I was thinking autoimmune could be impacting test results but even when I had no autoimmune symptoms years ago, blood counts were so low I had two bone marrow tests at insistence of doctors and another time a blood smear.

Recently, I had a set back in how I feel. It's like I've gone back two years. May be coincidence, but since starting monolaurin, I have had a bit more energy. This happened before when I took it. But seems I'm not taking enough to make a difference.

I can't remember if either of you (dcd or garzie) are treating for Bartonella. I'm going to infectious disease doctor tomorrow and really push about what test results mean as they conflict on different interpretation charts. Also what a negative EBV DNA plasma means or doesn't. Hard to get answers for everyone on this site, it seems.

I forgot to let you all know that the three things that made me herx were (in no particular order):

Buhner herbs (I think Japanese Knotweed specifically, but it could have been one of the others too).
Bee venom.
Disulfiram.

Antibiotics didn't make me herx, nor did they help me at all. I tried many.

I didn't try monolaurin.

RainyCloud said...
I also forgot to mention that my testosterone has been low for years.

I'm on testosterone replacement therapy because of it.

Hey, RainyCloud:

Out of curiosity, have you had your estrogen levels checked?

* Estrone (E1)
* Estradiol (E2)

If so, were either of them high?

Also, for your testosterone replacement therapy, how is that administered? Is it a pill, sublingual, injected, a cream, or an implantable pellet?

I hope you're well,
Dude

Quin said...
Garzie,

Your CBC results look a lot like mine. During a severe herx, my neutrophils went up but lymphocytes/eosinophils went down.

For me, bart did cause occasional low hemoglobin or iron, but it wasn't consistent. Much more consistent was increased bilirubin and B6.

interesting - perhaps its a common pattern during "herx"

my charts say:
bilirubin normal - never high - always between 5 and 9 - usually 8 umol/L
Serum total protein level g/L [60.0 - 80.0] - often on the high limit or just over
mean haemoglobin concentration has been low once - but only measured 2 or 3 times
mean platelet volume has been high one also - but again not measured often

never had B6 tested - doesn't seem to be a common test ?

dcd2103 said...
Garzie, did you flare to buhner herbs? I tried some of the main buhner herbs a while back. Andrographis, JKW, chinese skullcap, red sage. I cant say i really flared from these, or that i noticed they really did anything. But maybe they were slowly immune modulating.

Wormwood and blackwalnut causes some mild burning, but maybe manageable to the point where i could get over the hump. Maybe worth sticking to that one, supposed to be great for both candida and protozoan sibo.

interesting....where was the burning amd wt kind of burning? While I was on buhner herbs I had severe burning in my head and neck and it migrates. Guessing it's a herx from the herbs. Especially sida acuta and I believe cordyceps! Did u have burning from these herbs as well?

dcd2103 said...
Garzie, did you flare to buhner herbs? .

Andrographis, - not sure may have done early on but later i could add it or take it out again without noticing and significant change

JKW, - dont think i ever herxed from this - but think i have noticed benefits from it when using high doses - and have taken it for years for this reason - more recently worked out that the dose when taking powdered herb is really large - 30g a day - so tried that - but the cost gets quite high also - so am now experimenting with tincture form as the dose ( and therefore the cost ) is much lower - presumably as the extraction is higher - i may have had a slight benefit from moving to tincture - even though the dose is approx 66% of buhners max suggested tincture dose - vs taking 100% of max suggested powder dose ( does that make sense) anyway energy went up a bit from changing to tincture.

i wonder if it is due to the fibre reduction rather than the phytochemicals bringing the benefit - as an unintended consequence - as both fibre and starch feed the microbiome - i am reactive to that - and knotweed is pretty high in fibre and resistant starch type compounds

Chinese skullcap - can cause a mild herx for me in largish doses - but generally mild - some aching in my body - under ribs etc

red sage - large doses - more than 3ml 4x a day - give me odd tingling sensations in my feet and in my head - odd - but supposed to be great for many lyme related things and all chronic bacterial infections so i stick with it - its pretty mild and entirely tolerable. i has a mild hypnotic effect in large doses also.

general all of the above are pretty low on the herx scale for me and i can ramp them up quickly or add or take them away easily enough.

sida, cryptolepis, berberine containing herbs etc - v high
houttuynia high and long lasting herx for me

have to go very carefully with these if i want to continue functioning - but can build up over time

yes - pine pollen was one of the components - but it only has tiny amounts of testosterone in it - so the approach is to use it in combination with other things that mainly modulate the conversion of the sex hormones like nettle root - i.e. turn down testosterones conversion to estradiol thereby increasing the natural level in the body significantly. i think the nettle root was the key one. but there were quite a few other things too like tribulis, horny goat weed etc which all seem to add to the effect

it defo works as i tested above range for a 25 yo male while taking it and had to stop!

Saw some mention of Monolaurin. I started this about a week ago as it seemed to have some activity against everything bad. Im on 1/4 tsp 3x a day. Although I think Im going to take a couple days off my stomach has felt off a couple days in a row now. Not crazy off but Im sensitive to stomach issues and really really dont like having them. Not much holds my bowels together after having a a lot of my colon removed last year.

Hard to say. My stomach has just felt off for a couple days nothing crazy. If Im doing something I dont notice it. Not even sure if its the monolaurin or not. I figured I would stop it for a couple days and see what happens.

running wild said...
I don't have much choice for EBV, because I can't take Valtrex. Going to infectious disease doctor today for more answers.

I'm not sure if it'll be helpful to you, but here's what an integrative medicine doctor suggested to me, regarding EBV, several years ago:

For EBV:
- Add lysine: 1,500 mg every morning on an empty stomach.
- Add monolaurin: 1,800 mg per day with food.

Again, that was for me. But, maybe you can mention it to your infectious disease doctor and see what they think.

If you skip the woo and fluff in the following article, there are some diet and supplement tips that may be worth discussing with your doctor, too:

How I Recovered from Epstein-Barr Virus (EBV)
https://rachelsnourishingkitchen.com/healing-epstein-barr-ebv

I wish you good luck and hope you feel better soon.

Thanks, Dude. Believe it or not, Lysine is only allowed in lower doseage (less than 600 mg) with kidneys. But it's better than none. Trying to move up slowly on Monolaurin.

Glad it's not causing other issues, SJ, and I must have missed it before about your colon. Sorry.

Thanks for the reply, RainyCloud.

From what I recall, I think my testosterone was okay. So, I'm not currently planning on testosterone therapy. (But, I'm older, so that may change in the coming years, as the decline in testosterone seems inevitable.)

Really, I was just wanting to ensure that:

1. your testosterone delivery was either an injection, cream, patch, or implantable pellet
2. your estrogen levels weren't high (if so, I was going to recommend some products)

It's good to "see" you, amigo. Stay well.

Dude