Revisiting Band 41 Western Blot

I've had this happen and it as mind boggling to say the least. That band 41 is always there and yes either igg and not igm . One thing I've always considered was late stage syphilis bt kve been tested 3 times over the years and it's been negative. Bt I've also read studies where people had late stage syphilis and it effected there central nervous system and brain much like bart and lyme do and the symptoms over lapped. These people were diagnosed and treated based upon a clinical diagnosis, and didnt rely on testing. I would self trest based upon symptoms as well, which is what I've come to realize over the years. We should treat based upon symptoms, not testing as we all know testing is so inaccurate especially waiting heard to be tested by time we are late stage . Also dental bacteria I've had back then and clindamycin proved to be effective , we have tons of dental spirochetes bt although I didnt feel the bands on my western blot were relevant to the band 41. It makes u really wonder u know. Late stage syphilis can cause many late stage lyme symptoms and I've looked into this.

MN - I’m with you on mind boggling. There’s really no true consensus, and some even say strep or candida can cause a positive band 41 IgG or IgM. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve been tested for syphilis. At least 10 -15 times over the course of 19 years. HIV at least 5-10 times, and I always tell the doctor that and that I’m sure I’m still clear of it.

dcd - Appreciate your concern and thoughts. Your situation is complex as well. Clinic coming soon for you.

I’m going back to doctor in an hour about follow up to strep. There is still a sore in my throat and it’s odd, but when I wake up the base of my neck on each side is tight and makes it harder to swallow. It may be TMJ as pushing those muscles in face helps.

EBV IgG is at about 200, which puts it way under the number you mention. I had not seen that. Thanks.

One infectious disease doctor did an CMV DNA test for cyto in December of 2019 but nothing else. He said it shows I don’t have it, but it still seems doctors are oversimplify both CMV and EBV tests basing them only on DNA runs.

Reading the link you sent, what throws me is my numbers have not gone down in 3 years of this - IgG, IgM or EBNA. Studies always mention the reappearance of IgM. But it never leaves. Then throw in the negative EBV DNA tests.

Am asking today about an HHV -6 test. I do not believe it’s ever been tested. It’s hard to get into a GOOD infectious disease doctor right now. Trying to.

Don’t want to take antibiotics unless warranted as there is candida in throat. I just don’t know.

running wild said...
Age old subject here, but I've looked and never really see a clear answer. Not sure there is one.

Last week, an urgent care doctor actually had the presence of mind to do a Lyme test (basic western blot). Test results came back yesterday with what I was concerned might happen - just band 41 IgG positive. Not IgM.

I don't have syphilis. Have no gum disease, thought my teeth do hurt from what I believe is TMJ. Any other periodontal diseases this could be? Because of Lyme, I take very good care of potential issues.

So it goes back to whether IgG after this long would still be Lyme. 18 months ago, I had band 23 also show IgG positive, along with 41. Now just 41. Can strep cause this? A virus?

Not just to whine, but I haven't felt this bad or depressed in 10 years. Last time I felt like this was when Sweet's Syndrome hit.

Also, with high titers of EBV IgM, IgG and EBNA for years now, I have to wonder if how I'm feeling is caused by EBV, despite doctors saying I don't have it active because of negative EBV DNA.

That's why the band 41 question is one I need to figure out. Is there a true "right" answer to that one?

I just came across this article it's interesting because, I did have 1 positive monspot test before , read below. Never knew this and it's my 1st time reading this.

False-positives, on the other hand, most likely result when your body is fighting off another infection, because the Lyme blood tests also detect the presence of antibodies to other bacteria or viruses. Illnesses such as syphilis and HIV, or even mononucleosis, is cause to question a positive test result.

For those of us who have had an intimate relationship with Lyme, antibodies to the disease remain in your bloodstream long after the bacterium has been vanquished, which makes future blood tests false-positive and disease resulting from a subsequent rendezvous with a tick hard to diagnose (FYI: Lyme can strike you as many times as the good Lord sees fit and symptoms can extend after successful treatment, for reasons unknown).

Im under the impression band 41 alone is meaningless from reading multiple studies. I have read several studies that mouth spirochetes can also cause band 41 to show up. A lot of doctors still push band 41 alone to be a Lyme diagnosis. Igenex even offers further testing on this band.

Sorry you have been feeling so lousy.

All of you are very appreciated and respected for your thoughts. I am at doctor right now trying to see if strep is gone.

The cross reactivity is a real good thought. I find it very telling that the thought of doing that is suggested by members here and not by the numerous doctors I’ve seen.

Based on titers based on others I’ve seen with reactivated EBV, mine are not nearly as high.

If two doctors are so sure the EBV DNA test would show a true result, then why wouldn’t they look at other possibilities? And I still wonder if Lyme is pushing this or not. Candida is also in picture.

Biologix is still looking at possibilities. They have been awesome checking in and trying to help. And they’re not doing it reaching out for money. It’s like a quest for them.

Being at a 10 year low point, there are no words to express my gratitude to all of you and only hope I can return the favor. Don’t know you but thank God for putting all of us in one place, though I wish it were a good place. 🙂

One quick note: When I drink some black tea (mostly decaf but some caffeine), I function better for an hour or two. Anyone else experience that? I try to limit it fir adrenals.

Is doxy and bicillin effective for treating strep throat?

What would “just go with it” entail ?

If you have a sore throat and you’ve tested positive for strep twice, I think you have strep.


The bigger question is why isn’t it going away, and why do you have all these others symptoms.

I think given the nature of this lingering infection, and the symptoms, reactive arthritis really makes sense. It ticks a lot of your symptoms and happens often after strep. Did you ask them about that?

Here’s a case of reactive arthritis from strep mimicking lyme: https://casereports.bmj.com/content/casereports/2016/bcr-2016-215552.full.pdf

I bet, or at least hope, these new symptoms clear up when the strep clears

Other possibility is rheumatic fever but I don’t know much about that and think it’s pretty rare?

From what I read, and it appears what I saw in the link, they refer to it as "post" strep. Indicators make it seem like it happens after one has strep. I'm not sure why it wouldn't make sense you could get it with at the same time as strep.

magoo2 - It also come with dental infection and syphilis.

You're right running wild, they do say post-strep. But then they prescribed antibiotics and say he improved. My understanding w/ reactive arthritis is that it starts during the infection and then can somtimes continue after the infection, somtimes for years if left un-treated.

I think you got reactive arthritis from an infection years ago, and then every time you get sick it flares.

Some of the common symptoms:
mouth ulcers,
conjunctivitis,
red itchy watery eyes,
back pain,
scaly skin,
urinary problems or
swollen fingers and toes.


It's very telling that it's flaring now when youre sick. I'm going to go out on a limb and say i figured out whats wrong with you. I'm close to positive. People even report temperature that goes above 99.0 degrees and then comes back down. I know you always consider what I and everyone else says, but I feel it in my gut that I'm right about this, or at least its a strong possibility, and I really hope you take this suggestion seriously.

Google reactive arthritis and reddit. you can see people saying they've had it for years. it can be treated and put into remission.

Do any of these skin manifestations look like what you had on your feet?

https://www.dermatologyadvisor.com/home/decision-support-in-medicine/dermatology/reactive-arthritis-reiters-disease-reiters-syndrome-fiessinger-leroy-disease-venereal-arthritis-polyarteritis-enterica/

Edit: I made a bold call there w the “positive”. I’m not, it’s impossible to be positive, but I feel really good about it as a worthwhile possibility that needs to be explored. Had to get some attention w a bold statement 😂

Post Edited (dcd2103) : 7/22/2021 7:55:02 PM (GMT-6)

running wild said...
All of you are very appreciated and respected for your thoughts. I am at doctor right now trying to see if strep is gone.

The cross reactivity is a real good thought. I find it very telling that the thought of doing that is suggested by members here and not by the numerous doctors I’ve seen.

Based on titers based on others I’ve seen with reactivated EBV, mine are not nearly as high.

If two doctors are so sure the EBV DNA test would show a true result, then why wouldn’t they look at other possibilities? And I still wonder if Lyme is pushing this or not. Candida is also in picture.

Biologix is still looking at possibilities. They have been awesome checking in and trying to help. And they’re not doing it reaching out for money. It’s like a quest for them.

Being at a 10 year low point, there are no words to express my gratitude to all of you and only hope I can return the favor. Don’t know you but thank God for putting all of us in one place, though I wish it were a good place. 🙂

One quick note: When I drink some black tea (mostly decaf but some caffeine), I function better for an hour or two. Anyone else experience that? I try to limit it fir adrenals.

I still currently have band 41 igg showing up bt with no ebv reactivation.

Trying to remember - Relapsing Fever is one.
Oh - and something called Pintas and Yaws.

I guess we're finding out Band 41 is more complicated than anticipated, which surprised mew after all these years. And to ad to the confusion, there has often been reports of false positive Lyme tests which are actually EBV. But Now I have found the cross reactivity between Lyme heterophile testing and EBV, especially IgM.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6306145/

That is just one study of several I found that discusses the cross reactivity. After this long this long having the two impact so many lives, it is insane there is still that much confusion and shows just how little has been put into research.

dcd - I like your "bold" call . It seems to fit. It's odd the Bicillin did not knock strep out. Trying to find a doctor who understands all this is a chore. I am treating Lyme with Bicillin and just started Amoxicillin, which, I also learned, often will cause a rash if you have EBV with it. It is because of the penicillin. Have not had a rash and struggling to get the strep negative. The pictures do not look like what I have had, but those could be worse case pictures. Also, there are a couple pictures in the story that are really tough to keep me reading (ha).

And I agree it is worth being explored. Wasn't trying to shed doubt when I mentioned post-infection. Just for back and forth conversation.

The doctors yesterday are ones who work urgent care, so I didn't expect good answers. But trying to get into a really good infectious disease doctor (if there is one with open mind) is hard. They make it tough to do. As I wait, things continue to get worse.

Finally, whatever the tests show, it seems clear Lyme is in the picture or I wouldn't be continuing to deal with the loss of fat/collagen/elasticity. It is mentally devastating if I focus on it.

Hope this is helpful to others with some of the same issues.