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Posted 6/4/2023 5:11 PM (GMT -5)
I lost my twenties, I was stuck at home most of the time. I'm in the process of losing my thirties, I'm 35 right now.
Maybe some of you remember, almost a year ago I asked about kissing and transmission of Lyme. Because after many years living alone in the desert, the wasteland that is called Lyme, I met someone online. She was amazing, one of the rare women that could make me laugh, she was very supportive of me and extremely intelligent. Lots more stuff I liked. We were best friend despite never having met in real life. And I decided to meet her and fly to Brazil. I didn't expect anything to happen, the best case was that it was gonna be a nice stay in another country with a close friend. But a miracle happened and she also liked me, we started dating.

But more than a decade of being single thanks to Lyme made me make so many mistakes. I made tons of beginner mistakes and learned lessons I should have learned in my twenties. In the process I hurt her a lot.
Eventually I drove her away.
We were gonna live together but I messed up and now I'm back home.
Alone.

**** Lyme.

Post Edited (Vimzor) : 6/4/2023 4:23:10 PM (GMT-8)

Posted 6/4/2023 6:36 PM (GMT -5)
self sabatoge is a real doozie . chalk it up to the process... stuff happens in its own timing and not a second sooner . im in the middle of jacking up a 3 rd chance with a love of my life so i can empathize. but alas shakespear said some bs about love and losing it but i see my celibate brother not having any of the stress , drama or bologna but he hasn't lived half of what i have seen/done or experienced the joy of relationships . nothing is lost lost i got back together with someone after 11 years of growing seperatly . hold hope give thanks and live to try again another day . keep your chin up vizmor only time takes away the sting of it ....but dont blame the genetically engineered bacteria its mostly our fault...

Post Edited (bluelyme) : 6/4/2023 8:34:23 PM (GMT-8)

Posted 6/5/2023 5:44 AM (GMT -5)
i have also separated from the love of my life recently

for years it made us both extremely happy just being in the same room together
but she had mental health issues caused by past grief and trauma that she had not dealt with and these were exacerbated by lyme and bart,
over time this made the relationship where we were both very ill and could not work, spent 24/7 together - all the while dealing with flares of bart rage and 10/10 anxiety delusions etc extremely challenging - more than enough to eat away at even the most stable of relationships.

it was very challenging to go through and upsetting in the end

would we have split up anyway, if it were not for lyme and co?
- its impossible to say - we can never know hat the counter factual situations would have been if even one tiny thing in the past had changed.

we tend to look at things as if its the case that "if it were not for this one thing then everything would have been great" - so, from that viewpoint, it seems like we have been incredibly unlucky
realistically - although its not what i wanted to happen - many worse things could have happened - and many better ones also -

in our daily lives we don't tend to look at all the things that could equally well have happened - and been much worse - but didn't, instead we go about our days taking the positives largely for granted and generally pretty oblivious to the bullets we have dodged.
for example
one of you could have been in a car wreck and crippled - this happens to thousands of people per year
one of you could have got cancer - 50% of people do in their lifetime - and it could have been terminal with a long and painful death
all of the people this happens to were - just the day before, oblivious to what was about to happen to them only hrs before the crash or the diagnosis

so, its easy to feel like this one single worst possible thing that could have happened - actually happened and as a result we feel life is overly cruel and unfair, and ultimately hopeless.
but its much more accurate to see life as a place with far more uncertainty in it than we typically consider it to have - that we just don't think about the bad things that could have happed to us by pure chance every day of our lives - and what has actually happens each day is just one random selection of all of those those possible good and bad things, every day for every one of us.

i don't mean to minimise or dismiss the pain you feel - i have been there myself very recently - so i know what its like
i am just trying to give another perspective - one that puts a the events into a different paradigm

we cannot control the hand we are dealt - and adversity is significant part of life for the vast majority of us - yet, that same unpredictability is what brings so many of the joys of life too - like meeting someone you can have a true deep connection with, we cannot have one without the other - and its better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.

of course its hard right now - but do not allow yourself to feel hard done by or dealt a poor hand - its insidious - and changes your outlook and ultimately your experience to one that is heavily biased towards the negative

fight the good fight - it will get better in time
Posted 6/5/2023 11:12 AM (GMT -5)
My sister died of cancer about 7 years ago. I had never seen cancer up close before that so I learned a lot. She lived for a year and half after her initial diagnosis (stage 4 cancer). It was interesting to me that, while she struggled, she was still able to live a relatively normal-ish life until the last two months or so when everything went downhill quickly. I'm not saying cancer is preferable to chronic illness. I'd much rather have what I have because at least I have a chance. But, and I see this as a big but, there is something uniquely cruel about non-functioning chronic illness. I would describe non-functioning as not being able to live a normal life of friends, family, work, recreation etc. The life that keeps you home laying on the couch or bed suffering during flares over and over. Not really able to achieve anything but perseverance. It's like a life stuck in the "grey", or purgatory, between death and health.

Next month will be my 8 year anniversary of the tick bite that kicked all this off. I'm 36 years old now. I feel your pain on "losing" years. To be honest, I don't even look at my situation as losing anything anymore. I prefer a more realistic approach to how I process the situation in my mind. We are in the universe. We are a part of the universe. There is no way for humans to exist outside the universe. We are this "thing" in it. Along with many other "things". Things, or processes, are always simply happening in the universe. To the human mind and body these things are on a spectrum of desirable, neutral, and undesirable. Unfortunately, this chronic illness stuff is like a continuous undesirable state to our mind and body.

The good news is I have found some comfort and increased well-being by accepting my condition. That doesn't mean it doesn't suck. It does suck and I will continue to work towards suppressing illness and increasing health for the rest of my life. I want to do things that are fun and desirable again.However, I have to accept that my current condition is what it is. I'm not going to wake up tomorrow and it be all better. Understanding this has allowed me to stop ruminating with the intrusive thoughts that cause so much suffering. This is not some fool-proof method, and I still struggle, but it has helped me.

All that to say I understand where you are coming from. I wish I could snap my fingers like a genie and make you whole again, but I can't. I'm really sorry about the situation with your partner. Dating with Lyme must be incredibly difficult. I feel for anyone trying to do that. Hang in there.
Posted 6/5/2023 1:28 PM (GMT -5)
yep - accepting how things are TODAY is a healthy response

that doesn't mean we have to be happy about it - and it doesn't mean we are accepting that this is how its going to be forever - or that we stop working to find a way through to improve our lot.

just that Lyme is a long term challenge - so today it is what it is - and it helps to accept that - as we cannot change what is -
but we can still change our experience of it quite a bit just by changing how we frame our situation to ourselves

one frame will tend to make us despair and spiral into hopelessness
another will help us say - "OK what's next - what CAN i do"
Posted 6/5/2023 2:33 PM (GMT -5)

Lymie24 said...
My sister died of cancer about 7 years ago. I had never seen cancer up close before that so I learned a lot. She lived for a year and half after her initial diagnosis (stage 4 cancer). It was interesting to me that, while she struggled, she was still able to live a relatively normal-ish life until the last two months or so when everything went downhill quickly. I'm not saying cancer is preferable to chronic illness. I'd much rather have what I have because at least I have a chance. But, and I see this as a big but, there is something uniquely cruel about non-functioning chronic illness. I would describe non-functioning as not being able to live a normal life of friends, family, work, recreation etc. The life that keeps you home laying on the couch or bed suffering during flares over and over. Not really able to achieve anything but perseverance. It's like a life stuck in the "grey", or purgatory, between death and health.

Next month will be my 8 year anniversary of the tick bite that kicked all this off. I'm 36 years old now. I feel your pain on "losing" years. To be honest, I don't even look at my situation as losing anything anymore. I prefer a more realistic approach to how I process the situation in my mind. We are in the universe. We are a part of the universe. There is no way for humans to exist outside the universe. We are this "thing" in it. Along with many other "things". Things, or processes, are always simply happening in the universe. To the human mind and body these things are on a spectrum of desirable, neutral, and undesirable. Unfortunately, this chronic illness stuff is like a continuous undesirable state to our mind and body.

The good news is I have found some comfort and increased well-being by accepting my condition. That doesn't mean it doesn't suck. It does suck and I will continue to work towards suppressing illness and increasing health for the rest of my life. I want to do things that are fun and desirable again.However, I have to accept that my current condition is what it is. I'm not going to wake up tomorrow and it be all better. Understanding this has allowed me to stop ruminating with the intrusive thoughts that cause so much suffering. This is not some fool-proof method, and I still struggle, but it has helped me.

All that to say I understand where you are coming from. I wish I could snap my fingers like a genie and make you whole again, but I can't. I'm really sorry about the situation with your partner. Dating with Lyme must be incredibly difficult. I feel for anyone trying to do that. Hang in there.

My Lyme saga started in 2013!
10 fricking years - well I guess 7 because I’ve been in remission for a few years now.

I just recently realized that I don’t cry anymore when I talk about what I went through.
It took a big chunk of my life.

But life is good now… really good.

My advice - don’t give up!

I saw at least three Lyme docs for over 3 years before going to DrJ. who got me to remission.
The protocol was brutal but it worked!
Posted 6/6/2023 11:20 AM (GMT -5)
Vimzor- We all hear you. this affects everyone a little differently. It can “wax and wain” greatly in some people over the years as it did in my case probably for four decades.

I grew up in northern central US tick country enjoying the great outdoors and prob had a hundred ticks on me before 25 years of age. As a pre teen I noticed my health was different than other kids and I was very much energy difficient. Unfortunately In the 1970s only major obvious health problems were dealt with or even recognized. The rise of the Internet in the 90’s certainly changed that for the better.

Over the decades I noticed these tick illnesses take advantage of your body in times of stress. You might actually feel a little better for now by accepting it and just go with it.

As a teen and young guy in my twenties, i did my best to ignore the symptoms and lived my life (with some difficulty). I still did things I loved (regional elite athlete) in my early 30s, but in more long lasting pain. Then I could no longer take it, and went into survival mode…..My late 30s and 40s were robbed from me. It was a miserable 15 year period that I cannot make up for. It sucked. Now im in my mid 50s and feel better and look much younger , but my mid life is gone and this did a “number” to my insides.

Sometimes we need something vs someone in our life to feel good about. A hobby or passion ect. that your good at and /or enjoy. Very few relationships are worth the bother because they were not a good fit to begin with. As humans, we ignore this and try to make it work anyway which eventually results in failure. Long lasting relationships that work actually do NOT have arguments, contrary to what some people will tell you. The happiest couples actually do NOT have to try very hard at it, they are very rare but true. Only so many people were made for each other.

So on your good days, try your best to get off the couch and do something that brings joy to yourself. No, you cant do everything that you used to, but there are some simple things you can do. Maybe even something new (?). Its all about baby steps while you work on clearing these infections.

Post Edited (astroman) : 6/6/2023 1:19:39 PM (GMT-8)

Posted 6/9/2023 4:05 PM (GMT -5)
My main problem right now seems to be more covid related than Lyme. I think if I can get rid of my recurrent covid problem I can live a somewhat normal live. But everything is connected, it's one giant puzzle I have to solve and I don't even have a doctor right now. I'm on my own. It's hard.


Lyme24 said...
But, and I see this as a big but, there is something uniquely cruel about non-functioning chronic illness. I would describe non-functioning as not being able to live a normal life of friends, family, work, recreation etc. The life that keeps you home laying on the couch or bed suffering during flares over and over. Not really able to achieve anything but perseverance. It's like a life stuck in the "grey", or purgatory, between death and health.

Yeah, that's how it feels. One big blur of grey, almost every day is the same. Such a waste.



I miss her a lot. Before I met her it always felt like there was something missing in my life. And now, I have the same feeling again. One of the mistakes I made was being bad at communication, caused by a lack of experience. I tried reading books about it & studying it, tried to do better but I feel like I didn't do enough effort because I was often too tired. And my crappy memory didn't help either.
Posted 6/9/2023 4:06 PM (GMT -5)
I miss my old self. I had such a good memory.
I'm tired off all this crap. sad
Posted 6/9/2023 5:45 PM (GMT -5)
Great post Astroman - but I disagree with this statement:


“Long lasting relationships that work actually do NOT have arguments, contrary to what some people will tell you. “

My husband and I have been married for 32 years now.
Of course we have arguments!!
Posted 6/9/2023 6:00 PM (GMT -5)

Vimzor said...
My main problem right now seems to be more covid related than Lyme. I think if I can get rid of my recurrent covid problem I can live a somewhat normal live. But everything is connected, it's one giant puzzle I have to solve and I don't even have a doctor right now. I'm on my own. It's hard.

This is surprising to read, as covid is usually quite treatable. I got covid repeatedly, but mepron and alinia cleared it up. If you don't have a doctor and can't get mepron, try ordering generic nitazoxanide online.
Posted 6/9/2023 6:23 PM (GMT -5)
Long covid = viral persistence. My body is already dealing with Lyme, it's too much to handle when you add another thing to it.
antivirals help but can't seem to kill it 100 % so it keeps coming back.
Sounds very familiar, doesn't it?
Posted 6/9/2023 7:14 PM (GMT -5)
Yes, I did initially have a relapse of covid when I stopped the antivirals, so I started taking mepron again. After 6 weeks I tried stopping, and covid didn't come back at that point. I found I didn't need to take the full dose as a maintenance protocol, so I just took a half dose, and one bottle of mepron lasted 6 weeks.
Posted 6/9/2023 9:30 PM (GMT -5)

Girlie said...
Great post Astroman - but I disagree with this statement:

"Long lasting relationships that work actually do NOT have arguments, contrary to what some people will tell you."

My husband and I have been married for 32 years now.
Of course we have arguments!!

Perhaps it depends on a person's definition of "argument." In my mind, the word "argument" means people yelling, getting angry, making insulting remarks, and maybe even throwing things and getting physical.

By contrast, a "disagreement" is likely to happen between any two people, no matter if they are married, domestic partners, friends, co-workers, or whatever.

But, two people can disagree about something and not act in the above ways. The goal would be to listen to the other person's position and try to understand it, rather than to yell and try to be "right." One cannot bomb their way to peace. Listening and understanding doesn't mean one has to agree with the other person's position.

For example, if you like chocolate ice cream and I like vanilla, we can still respect each other and be friends.

_

Post Edited (The Dude Abides) : 6/10/2023 9:01:29 AM (GMT-8)

Posted 6/10/2023 2:09 AM (GMT -5)
“ In my mind, the word "argument" means people yelling, getting angry, making insulting remarks, and maybe even throwing things and getting physical.”



We do sometimes get angry - but no insulting remarks or throwing things and it never gets physical.
Posted 6/10/2023 11:23 AM (GMT -5)
yep - i know couples with happy marriages of over 20 years that have flaming barnies at each other quite regularly

then i know couples who have been together even longer and swear they never have a cross word in their marriage

but i also know what its like to be in a good relationship with someone who has lyme and bart rages - and that this is rarely going to be plain sailing through no fault of either party.

it takes all sorts
Posted 6/10/2023 12:30 PM (GMT -5)
I could add to this, but that would be kind of like digging yourself into a hole, so I’m not going to.

On a positive note, you could say that if somebody stays with you while you have lyme well,…. they passed one heck of a test and probably really like you. And it’s probably not for the money either since most people with Lyme experience income and employment problems.

And there’s something to be said about peace and quiet, and time to recharge all by yourself. Either you need that or you don’t.
Posted 6/18/2023 9:29 PM (GMT -5)
Can't get her out of my head. sad
It's almost been three months. I just wanna move on but it's hard. She's living in my head 24/7. There's not much for me to be distracted by. Feeling crappy every day, tired, it's hard to focus on projects.

Money was one of the issues. She expected the guy to be the provider. She expected me to teach her stuff and guide her but I basically lost a decade so there wasn't much I could teach her. Made me feel super inadequate.

I highly suspect she has Bartonella. So many signs.. She responded bad to my Bartonella meds, I don't think healthy people would have a reaction like that. And she had these very nasty anger outbursts. Which made me think of Bartonella rage.
I don't know... it doesn't matter actually. I messed up so hard she told me to never contact her again.

Someone told me I need to learn how to become comfortable with lacking a partner in my life. I guess that's true.
Posted 6/18/2023 11:27 PM (GMT -5)

Vimzor said...
Someone told me I need to learn how to become comfortable with lacking a partner in my life. I guess that's true.

Personally, I think that's good advice.

Long ago, I heard something I can't recall/quote precisely, but it was something like: "I'm not going to stop being all of me to be half of us." Or, maybe it ended with "...half of you."

Intellectually, I'm sure you understand that you don't need anyone else to "complete" you or to make you happy. Emotionally, though, that might be harder to accept, especially in the aftermath of a breakup.

Others can enhance our lives, but I believe we should strive to cultivate our own internal sense of worth, happiness, love, etc. We shouldn't base those feelings on others, else our sense of self is always at the mercy of external forces.

You're still young and such things will likely get easier with time. Replaying the same events over and over in your head isn't going to help you to move on. So, as you alluded, you could probably benefit from finding others things to occupy your mind. Or, you could turn inward and try to address it head-on with something like meditation.

Whatever you do, finding acceptance with "what is" will be instrumental with healing and moving on. That means accepting what's already happened, rather than repeatedly thinking about how you're sad that it happened or how you wish it hadn't happened. It's not easy, but it's doable. It takes repeated and consistent effort.
Posted 6/19/2023 9:13 PM (GMT -5)

The Dude Abides said...

....
You're still young and such things will likely get easier with time. Replaying the same events over and over in your head isn't going to help you to move on. So, as you alluded, you could probably benefit from finding others things to occupy your mind. Or, you could turn inward and try to address it head-on with something like meditation.

Whatever you do, finding acceptance with "what is" will be instrumental with healing and moving on. That means accepting what's already happened, rather than repeatedly thinking about how you're sad that it happened or how you wish it hadn't happened. It's not easy, but it's doable. It takes repeated and consistent effort.

I lost my twenties. sad sad And I still have Lyme, it's not over yet. I feel 80 years old, I don't feel young at all.
The whole still being sick thing makes moving on very hard. On days with more energy I can be distracted from it but on sick days I'm stuck in the past. I also still haven't accepted being sick because of Lyme. Hard to accept something like that.
Posted 6/20/2023 5:52 AM (GMT -5)
some wise words from the Dude as always

just a a clarification on accepting from my perspective - accepting doesn't mean you are happy about being ill - or a relationship ending - or that we will stop striving every day to make life better in the future

just that we accept what has happened as final and done and unchangeable - as that is what it is -
and accepting means we need to disengage our mind and emotional life from the stories we tell ourselves about what has already happened and we are powerless to change.

all that energy that gets taken up focussed on what has been lost, wishing it hadn't happened that way, wishing we had done something different, wishing the world was somehow more "fair", rolling over what was said and done etc - is a trap that becomes a massive drain on our wellbeing - and the more we allow ourselves to spend time doing that the harder it becomes to get out of it - "neurons that fire together wire together" and all that.

i am not saying this to be critical or harsh or some kind of know it all - after all, we have all been there - its a part of being human,
so i hope its not seen like that - its just an attempt to pass on some of the hard learned life lessons accumulated through being on the planet for a few more decades.
since you are clearly very unhappy right now i wanted to offer some suggestions of what can be done in practical terms - if you are ready to do so.

having been there myself - i know this is easier said than done - but i would suggest making some positive steps to try to bring that stage to a conclusion - so its not somewhere you spend months or years.

to do that, i would say try to process it in writing - ( something about doing this takes it from being a endless carousel of negative thoughts - and things start to crystallise out)

first i would just try to get all your feelings down on paper - good / bad - rational or otherwise - just focus on trying to express what you feel and why

then i would review what i have written and try to extract from it the actual lessons that i would like to take forward - ( this is actually the purpose of the emotions of sadness, shame and regret we feel after emotional upset - to motivate us to learn lessons for the future).
i would ask myself if these are the lessons i would like to have learned if i were looking back on my life in 10 years time.

to help start to break the cycle - i would also question whether a relationship is even a good idea right now - and offer a different perspective as food for thought.

although it might seem like life would be so much better with a relationship - relationships are not the answer to unhappiness
in fact, unhappy people, expect too much of their partners, react in inappropriate ways and generally have unhappy relationships.....

consciously or subconsciously - they are often asking their partners to make up to them for the loss they feel they have experienced.
Posted 6/20/2023 11:59 AM (GMT -5)
Garzie: Thank you for the kind words, my friend. Likewise, your post was excellent and full of sage advice.
Posted 6/20/2023 12:00 PM (GMT -5)
Vimzor:

Like Garzie, I hope my previous comments didn't seem callous. Neither he nor I want you to suffer and we both hope you can benefit from our life experiences.

I'm very sorry that you lost your 20s to Lyme. Of course, I have no idea how you feel or how your life has been affected. As someone who has been sick for a while, though, you certainly have my sympathy and empathy.

Over time, I've been working my way through the Five Stages of Grief:

* Denial
* Anger
* Bargaining
* Depression
* Acceptance

Over the past year or two, I seem to either be stuck in Depression or half in Depression and half in Acceptance. Unfortunately, I can seem to completely transition out of Depression.

Your comment about feeling 80 years old is one that I can relate to, unfortunately. I have a few more miles on my odometer than you, so that's not helping matters.

Anyway, If you have the option and are open to it, speaking to a therapist might be helpful. At a minimum, though, I recommend following the writing exercises that Garzie proposed.

Whatever you do (or, don't do), try to remember that this situation will pass. And, it's possible that you may even end up in a better situation.

Dude
Posted 6/20/2023 3:57 PM (GMT -5)
Are there good books that can help me with all of this?

I'm in therapy, it's not that helpful to be honest.
Posted 6/20/2023 8:23 PM (GMT -5)
Hey, Vimzor:

I'm sorry that therapy hasn't been helpful, thus far. I applaud you for giving it a try, though.

As someone who has seen a variety of therapists over the years, I've found that trying on therapists is similar to trying on shoes. Some are a good fit, some are a terrible fit, and there's a wide gradient in-between the two. You could try a different therapist, if you're open to the idea. I know that can be tiring, but finding a good therapist can really make a huge difference.

That aside, regarding books, I don't have any books to recommend specifically about relationships and breakups, per se. The books that have helped me the most are actually considered somewhat spiritual in nature. But, they helped me in many areas of my life, such as patience, forgiveness, anger, grudges, regrets, living in the past, self-worth, and relationships, to name a few.

While I've listened to a lot of audio books over the past 20+ years, the two authors that have helped me the most are:

* Wayne Dyer
* Eckhart Tolle

In addition to the books by the above authors, the following book was also very helpful:

* A Course In Miracles

I happened to find and listen to them in the order listed. Wayne Dyer was easy to listen to and he was funny and felt like a father figure. Eckhart Tolle wasn't as light and breezy and he required much closer attention. I had to take breaks and think about what was being said. Finally, "A Course In Miracles" (ACIM) required me to go even slower, pause more often, and replay the information multiple times. It's very profound, but also very dense.

This was all internally-directed work, because I had formed many incorrect opinions about life. As a result, I held unhealthy views that caused me to act (and react) in detrimental ways. This, of course, caused other unconscious people (like I was) to react in defense or retaliation. As you would expect, this led to arguments, loss of friendships, loss of partners, heartaches, anger, frustration, self-pity, etc.

It wasn't overnight magic, of course. I'm stubborn and a slow learner, so it took time for me to really hear and understand what they were teaching and then to integrate it into my life. But, over the years, between the audio books, applying the information, getting older, getting sick, and experiencing repeated disappointments and frustrations, the way I thought about things and how I responded to people and situations continued to improve.

In fact, it's still ongoing. I've not reached enlightenment and likely never will in this lifetime. That's fine. It's still much better than the experiences I used to have.

If you're interested in any of the above three resources, I've found a lot of their material on YouTube. Maybe listen to some of it and see if it resonates with you. When searching for Wayne Dyer, you will find a lot of videos about "manifesting." That's not the stuff I'm referring to and it's also stuff in which I don't personally believe.

I found some other resources on YouTube that might be helpful for you, though I've not listened to them in any great detail. I just did a quick scan of them.

Andrew Huberman: Worst Thing to Do After Breakup
https://youtu.be/kppvzohnbaw

Andrew Huberman: The Science and Process of Healing From Grief
https://youtu.be/dzovi0aa2ea

Guy Winch: How to Fix a Broken Heart
https://youtu.be/k0gqsjrpvhm

More from Guy Winch
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=guy+winch

Again, I've only skimmed some of these, so I'm not sure if they're a good fit for you. Personally, I'm more interested in inward-directed focus, as opposed to looking outside for solutions -- or worse, blame. But, we're all on different paths and what works for one person may not work for the other person. Or, it might not work now, but could be helpful in the future.

My apologies for the long message. I hope some of this might be helpful.

Best of luck,
Dude
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