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How you dealing with virus during abx treatment

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Posted 9/11/2024 4:26 AM (GMT -5)
Hey, so im getting into my 4 weeks of abx treatment.I was feeling better and better, but now some issues coming back what i already had one year ago. I can feel my viruses starting making party, and its definitly no herx.. I got herpes, my lymph are swollen and i have running nose....So thats why i canceled my abx treatment 1 year ago. (i canceled it because i was getting intense heartracing and headaces as ****) And im scared that it will be the same intense. Im taking already a bunch of virus herbs. Licorce, Lomatium, Reishi, cordy, olive leaf, l lysin and Monolaurin. Somebody has the same issus? I think virustatike will be to hard to combine? This sucks, so hard! I was really getting better and better and also the abx was making his job...
Posted 9/11/2024 11:03 AM (GMT -5)
Palermo, I'm sorry to hear you feel so bad! That must be very disappointing.

Unless you are extremely isolated or still mask around others, isn't there a chance you just have a virus right now? Like perhaps you contracted COVID, a flu, or a cold? I don't know about where you live, but in the US right now there's a huge COVID surge in progress. I just suggest this because maybe it's not related to your treatment or chronic illness. Herpes outbreaks, runny nose, and swollen lymph nodes are typical presentation of all the usual viruses people give each other on a regular basis.

It's great that you are supporting your body with so many things! That way, if this is an acute virus, then your immune system may be more likely to clear it and turn off its immune response quickly, and not turn this into more chronic symptoms.

I have read that lomatium can cause really severe reactions in the first couple of weeks, so I thought I'd mention that in case it's an herb you started taking recently.

If things were going well with your antibiotics, then I see no reason to stop taking them due to a virus, but others with more antibiotics experience might have other advice for you!

I hope everything resolves fast!
Posted 9/12/2024 2:38 AM (GMT -5)
hey sareli, thanks for your answer. Im not feeling awfull its still makeble. But it sucks because its the same story i had already last year, and im scared that im going the same route agin. I mean you never know if you catch anything, but it feels more like an reactive with my lymph and stuff. Test on covid are negative. It awlays started after 3 weeks of abx, my virus symptomes getting worst, lymph swollen running nose, weird headaces (not like herx) and wierd heart racing.I just hope the Herbs are doing his jobs. I doubled the doses yesterday and im feeling already a bit better today. Thats why i always felt so bad under abx treatment, i thought it was herx, but it was always the virus loads. After couple of month of treatment it went better, becuase i guess the bacteria load was going down and the immunsystem can catch up again. Im just wondering if it makes sense to take some virusstatika? Or anything else.... but to be honest artemsia and lomatium are lifesaver!
Posted 9/12/2024 6:11 AM (GMT -5)
could be the antibiotics are lowering some aspects of the immune system - for example many common abx like tetracyclines and macrolides are anti-inflammatory in nature - so will have some inhibitory properties on at least some aspects of immune function

its also common for white blood cells to drop while on antibiotics - potentially due to the above effect - or perhaps due to them getting used up cleaning up the dead and dying bacteria from the antibiotics - so this could also make one a bit more susceptible to other - non bacterial pathogens

perhaps pulsing abx could be one option - as the time off allows the immune system to recover to some extent in between pulses - Dr J believes this immune recovery is an important part of his treatment approach
it is working for me
Posted 9/12/2024 8:55 AM (GMT -5)
thank you garzie, i always have the fear that im building resistance while im pusling. I mean im taking rifa at the moment, i think you should not puls that for sure. What abx are you pulsing? I will try to stick true, but it kind of sucks when you know you feeling bad and its not even and die off ;)
Posted 9/12/2024 11:44 AM (GMT -5)
i am mainly using
-ceftin
-doxycycline ( or minocycline )
-clarithromycin

2 weeks on / 1 week off

along with buhner herbs, biofilm agents and methylene blue
Posted 9/12/2024 12:53 PM (GMT -5)

palermo said...
thank you garzie, i always have the fear that im building resistance while im pusling. I mean im taking rifa at the moment, i think you should not puls that for sure. What abx are you pulsing? I will try to stick true, but it kind of sucks when you know you feeling bad and its not even and die off ;)

Yes you can pulse rifampin or Rifabutin - you should be taking at least one other abx with it
Posted 9/13/2024 3:28 AM (GMT -5)
@garzie, thank you! i have an appointment with dr. reinhard soon, and will suggest it. Also maybe take virusstatika in the breaks... Lets see what he is saying about. your abx combo is quite good, i took a simliar combo 9 years ago, and i went back to normal after 3 months. but no clari but quensyl...

@girlie ahhh really, i thought you could develop and alergic when you taking it with short breaks..
Posted 9/13/2024 8:34 AM (GMT -5)

palermo said...
Also maybe take virusstatika in the breaks...

Don't take nucleoside analogues (eg valaciclovir) when you are not on antibiotics. Borrelia DNA polymerase lacks a proofreading exonuclease and is vulnerable to these antivirals. It will cause a herx, and potentially a more severe inflammatory response than if you combined it with bacteriostatic antibiotics, which can put you at increased risk of autoimmune disease and thrombotic thrombocytopenic purpura, as I found out the hard way.

Other types of antivirals, eg protease inhibitors are okay as these do not affect borrelia.

palermo said...
your abx combo is quite good, i took a simliar combo 9 years ago, and i went back to normal after 3 months. but no clari but quensyl...

@girlie ahhh really, i thought you could develop and alergic when you taking it with short breaks..

Ceftin/minocycline/clarithromycin is fine but this does not kill borrelia, only puts it into a dormant state. The reason for combining rifampin or rifabutin with other antibiotics is to prevent resistance mutations.
Posted 9/17/2024 2:54 AM (GMT -5)
Vitamin D
VItamin C (liposomal if poss)
Vitamin E
Vitamin A
Zinc

L-lysine
Monolaurin
Quercetin
Olive leaf extract

Manuka honey
Ginger
Elderberry
Garlic

Glutathione liposomal
Glutathione nebuliser
Glutathione suppositries

HOCL nebuliser
Oxygen concentrator
Propolis throat spray for sore throat

Fresh air
Sunlight
Grounding

Electrolytes
Quinton Isotonic Minerals
CT minerals

Kidney liver support
Some kind of binder
Castor oil packs
Posted 9/17/2024 5:53 AM (GMT -5)
thank you all, i guess i will tryt to add valtrex the next days, im complete on all virus herbs and mushrooms, but still feeling like crap. Maybe i take an abx break, and try garzie versions
Posted 9/18/2024 5:44 AM (GMT -5)

Quin said...
Ceftin/minocycline/clarithromycin is fine but this does not kill borrelia, only puts it into a dormant state.

is that accurate?

we do have borrelia drug trials against even stationary phase cultures ( the most difficult to kill - as they contain a high proportions of persister cells - which are the most tolerant to antibiotics) that show drugs like ceftin and clarithromycin kill 60-65% of borrelia after 7 days

note - even the best multidrug combos kill only around 75% of borrelia cells after 7 days in the same trials

eg https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmc7559458/#app1-antibiotics-09-00542
Posted 9/18/2024 12:23 PM (GMT -5)

palermo said...
@garzie, thank you! i have an appointment with dr. reinhard soon, and will suggest it. Also maybe take virusstatika in the breaks... Lets see what he is saying about. your abx combo is quite good, i took a simliar combo 9 years ago, and i went back to normal after 3 months. but no clari but quensyl...

@girlie ahhh really, i thought you could develop and alergic when you taking it with short breaks..

I’ve not heard of people developing an allergy because they pulsed the abx.

I pulsed abx (several at the same time) and I have healed.
If you just treat with one antibiotic - it’s thought that you could develop resistence to it.
Posted 9/18/2024 1:16 PM (GMT -5)
its not really an allergy

its an immune mediated drug induced reaction that causes the body to form antibodies to red blood cells, kidney cells etc - that occurs with rifampicin. it is potentially very serious as it typically leads to disseminated hypercoagulation and kidney damage.

it actually occurs in a small percentage of all people who take rifampicin - but there are some studies that found it more likely to occur if the drug is pulsed - vs taken continuously

i have not seen the same motioned in the context of taking rifabutin - so it may be that the same doesn't happen with that - despite it being closely related to rifampicin

certainly plenty of Dr J's patients have pulsed rifabutin - and he has treated thousands - so it seems to be OK
Posted 9/19/2024 8:00 AM (GMT -5)
@thanks girlie and garzie! I will ask Reinhard when i got my appointment in one month, but im keen to do pulse version!
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