Wife not interested PART 2

Wow, where to begin.

My husband has had an RP and as I posted before he hates using the very low dose Viagra/Cialis that he now needs to have to have proper erection. So he avoids sex/making love. And certainly the frequency of our lovemaking is a lot less than I would likeand want.

But this does not define our love for each other. I love him very dearly as he does me. The thought of leaving him or having sex with someone else just because he has some emotional hang ups about swallowing a tiny pill is quite repulsive to me. I realize he has had cancer, I realize the whole thing is not the same for him. I know because I have talked to him about it.

We have all, husbands and wives been scarred in our own ways by this PCa experience. There are a whole bunch of wives here who contemplated the possibility that husbands may never have sex with them again because of their PCa Rp and still stuck by them through the entire experience. My thought is that an emotional hang up is a perfectly valid reason not to have sex with your partner, it should not be seen as selfish. It is as valid as being physically unable to have an erection as a reason not to have sex. The only way to work the emotional issues out is to work out the underlying cause of the hang up and sort that out. In my husband's case it's some sort of internal disgust at himself for needing Viagra at all. Rodger, in your wife's case it may be something else completely - it could be one of a million reasons from a delayed reaction to you having cancer, to feeling old, to feeling unattractive. The counseling sounds like a great idea.

An

Steve n Dallas said...
So davidg, what you're saying is that if your penis falls off you're certain your wife will leave you? That's sad....

Try to picture a constant state of hangover combined with a bad case of diarrahea, running a fever all day long - and you haven't slept in months.

Would you feel like giving your wife what she wants?

I was doing a bit of an over exaggeration...but you you get the general jest of what having no lobido would be like... In other words, there are two people involved here...

No, I already answered that question when David made that leap. There are plenty of ways of pleasing a woman sexually.If she had sexual needs and I neglected these, I would certainly expect her to develop a big void in her life, animosity towards my refusal to pleasure her, and that this would inevitably lead to her seeking a way to compensate for these missing parts of her life one way or another.

You're twisting my words and making leaps tha have absolutely nothing to do with what I said. You're also taking a very complex physical and emotional issue and making it a black and white issue.

If there are physical issues preventing a partner from having intercourse that is another issue. I also already said that.

It's not about the penis per se. You can make a woman come and enjoy sex in a million different ways. My wife doesn't only enjoy sex with me when we have me penetrating her. Sure that's the majority of the cases, but we certainly don't confine it to that. And I also differ form some of you in that getting off for me isn't about me getting off. I ge toff when she gets off and there are plenty of ways of getting a woman "off".

But of course, here we are talking about Roper's wife just not being in the mood when Roper has a physical and emotional need for it. Some of us think that scenario portrays one partner as slightly selfish and we suggested communication and mixing it up.

Post Edited (davidg) : 10/11/2012 8:05:49 AM (GMT-6)

OK Got it... But, the falling off part was more to simulate ED and how we guys can feel like less that a man when our manly parts don't work.

A few random thoughts:

There is a meme one hears about boiling a frog. It states that if you drop a frog into a pot of boiling water it will immediately jump out and will live but if you put a frog in a pot of cool water and then heat the water slowly, one degree at a time, the frog will sit in the pot happily and eventually cook. Some people here have pointed out that all couples see their sexually fade with age and wonder why men with PCa feel singled out. Maybe it is that PCa provides the event that makes us notice -- the sudden sensation of hot water on our skin makes us aware of the problem. Or, to season my frog stew of metaphor with an unrelated simile, the sexual side effects of PCa treatment can be like twenty years of sexual decline payable in one lump sum.

Just to be on record, my wife is a trooper. She lost her father to PCa and my disease has her scared crapless, but she tries with fair success to hide it from me. She is very supportive of my rehab activities -- strange vacuum devices and sticking needles in my privates -- because she knows that it is somehow important to me but she is a bit puzzled about why. Menopause has taken most of her libido and, if we never had sex again she would be OK with that as long as she had me to do stuff with. That said, she is on record as being ready to engage in any sexual activity I feel ready for. So far, the pump and the Trimix are just for rehab and I haven't asked. But I will, eventually.

I am pretty put off my my incontinence. I knew going into RP that I was likely to be dependent on injections long term and had made the necessary mental adjustments. But I had failed to realize how thoroughly incontinence trumps my plans. Who cares, really, what the wet, limp, leaky little thing might, in theory, be capable of doing?

So our current (hopefully temporary) lack of physical intimacy is all my own decision based on my current situation. My VED and Trimix activities are (so far) used for rehabilitation only -- to keep hope alive that someday I -- that we -- will heal and can get back to where we belong. I have great hopes for Christmas ... Christmas 2014 (when the lupron wears off, *sigh*) for something of a second honeymoon. In the meanwhile I hope we will have sex occasionally so we don't forget how and so I can keep my expectations in line with reality.

So I have exactly zero reason to be cross with my wife and I am not. But that doesn't mean that my wife, who is my best friend and loves me ferociously, can understand me completely. At one point when she could see that I was in a funk worrying that my upcoming RP might end my life as a sexual creature, she said: "That's OK. It's not a big deal. We have grandbabies!"

I realize that she was inviting me into her happy place. But (and here's a note for you ladies on the forum) when a man is depressed because he feel old, and sexless and useless, reminding him that he is a grandfather and offering to take him shopping for baby stuff doesn't help. It makes him think about finding a warm, comfortable place where he can sit, quietly and out of the way, and wait for the reaper.

[We did go shopping for baby junk, by the way. This is all hard for her too and it helps her to buy things for the twins who live three states away.]

In his original post, he said:

"As for the holiday i was enjoying myself when all i was thinking maybe tonight she might show me she wants me
but no it was into bed and asleep.I lay there thinking this is not a marriage suppose to be and it really
hurts to feel your wife does not want you now expect for a friend i feel all i am now is a house mate.
It was never like this before i was DX with PC we had a great sex life but now it hurts so much to know your
wife doesn't want you sexually any more is it us as a couple or has love just gone is it the PC ."

No where is there any mention of any other reason for her lack of interest or desire for him. He also said that they had a great sex life before PCa. The issue here plainly is a change in the interest, desire and yes, even committment his wife has had during his period of illness and recovery. Personally, I don't care how much of a good wife, wonderful mother and such a person she is, if she is truly married, loves her husband and cares about the health and long term chances for success of her marriage, then she should consider the lovemaking and/or sex as just an important part of her contribution to maintaining her part of the marriage committment. There's no place as cold and lonely as the marriage bed in the middle of the night when a spouse is emotionally and physically withdrawn and has abandoned the normal acts that bind a couple. That loneliness will usually turn into resentment and anger at some point for the aggreived spouse, and then the safe, loving marriage the other thinks is so secure is suddenly threatened. Marriages fail every day on much less things than this. The notion of staying together as a matter of habit, or even long term committment won't work in most cases nowadays. With a divorce rate approaching 50% of first time marriages, there is no place for complaceny and lack of effort in todays marriage. This scenerio doesn't apply to illness, loss of function long term pain and disability issues, I am talking about a formerly loving and sharing spouse who suddenly decides that they don't need, want or are willing to share that essential part of a healthy marriages recipe for success. It can be from long-held resentments, a feeling that they've served their tour, or just a feeling of love changed and no need to love or think about the others needs or feelings. How any spouse can be happy with a deliberate change to housemate from wife is beyond me. Maybe I don't live in that world and can't understand one's thinking when it comes to emotionally and physically cutting off a spouse that way.

While I can’t offer much advice on how to get to this good place, I feel very blessed that my wife and I are team on sexual matters. And, we actually have a fierce pride in maintaining a strong sexual relationship despite any roadblocks or bumps in the road. We have discussed that, perhaps, the day may come, some day, when we have to dial it back because of age or health. But, at that point we want to look back, almost exhausted, at an amazing sexual journey over the decades.

I had a rough RP experience – a complication requiring a second open surgery. Plus, I was newly placed on Lupron. My testosterone bottomed out. I had some type of tube coming out of me for almost 2 months. It was not a good time for me. But, I still vividly remember when my wife decided it was time to get me back in the game. It started with simple touching. Erections were not the goal. At first, I could not even have an orgasm.  We met with the uro PA to discuss pills, pumps, etc. He told me to try and go to “completion” 4-5 times a week. That was our homework. We worked on it every day for weeks and months – doing our “homework.” I ventured into an adult novelty store to buy my wife a toy. (I never saw so many choices. It was one of those adult super stores!) We also met with the VED salesman and got one of those bad-boy pumps. I started practicing with that. Eventually, we had the trimix demonstration in the uro’s office. That was different! Plus, we had two trips to the ER for 5 hour erections.  It all seems very funny, now. We still laugh about those experiences. We just can’t tell many of our friends about those experiences. This is not exactly cocktail party conversation material. But, all this is part of our journey, our narrative.

Today, almost two years later, I am very good at using a VED. I can reel off orgasms just fine. We have really upped our game on techniques and overall creativity. Challenges and roadblocks created an almost urgent necessity which forced us to find new ways of accomplishing things when it comes to sex. There is an ultimate reward in that kind of struggle. Our sex life got even better (from a very good place by the way) and we can now do things we never imagined prior to my cancer diagnosis.

Now it is my wife’s turn to get back in the saddle. She just had a Da Vinci hysterectomy, two weeks ago. Last night, she got her first post-surgery orgasm (no penetration of course.) Onward we go.

I acknowledge the issue of mismatched libidos in couples and we are fortunate that this has not been a historical issue for us. (However, I am not supposed to have any libido at all due to ADT!)

I would dearly love to see all husbands and wives be a team on this and enjoy it as much as we do. Alas, I hear many stories to the contrary, both on here on HW and in real life.

GOP: "time to move on?" I'm laughing as I type this because I'm thinking of all the times that I too could have moved on during our 32 years of marriage. It's easy to sit here and diagnose Mrs. English's reasons for shutting her husband out. But the reality is we do not know her, we only know what we are told. We do not know the intimate details of her and Mr. English's relationship, and because we do not know these, none of us has the right to pass judgment or to counsel anyone on whether they should "move on".

"Determined to live in an emotional cocoon". How many of you guys do this? How many of you have really talked with your partner about your deepest, darkest feelings? Men are generally not emotional creatures, whereas women often are. If Mrs. English is truly living in an emotional cocoon, there's got to be a reason why. We create cocoon's to protect ourselves - we all do it in one form or another - so what's needed is to find out why Mrs. English placed herself in this cocoon rather than judge her for being in it.

I think this has been a great thread and it has brought a lot of members closer. There have been points of views shared, discussed and disclosed that not all have thought of. And even some differing. But no bickering or attacking. Just an open discussion and I for one have learned some things. Thanks to all for being so open and hopefully the OP (that is Roger) has figured out what he needs or needs not to do.

An and Sephie, I understand your sentiments, and I am a guy.

I am shocked at the number of guys here, that are coming across as: No Sex = No Marriage.

I am not one of those men, I have articulated some heart felt feelings about the endurance side of a good marriage.

And one point that I see missing from many of the men's answers, is that none of us know anything about Mrs. Rodgers side. Yes, there are 2 sides to everything. It is fair to see, before any descision or judgement could be made, we would have to know and hear her perspective and her opinions and her history on the subject.

I still say my original advice stands solid, this couple needs some serious counseling, to get this thorn on the table, to get to the truth, and to see if a solution can be found. Any long standing marriage deserves this attempt.

But some of these answers, are starting to sound cold and selfish on the part of some men's attitude about wives, women, and sex.

I want no part of that thinking.

I have always loved, adored, and cherished my wife, and I will always stand by her, no matter what. And nooky only has a tiny percentage in my thinking, and the lack of it would never change my love or feelings toward here.

Call me a fool, but I mean every word of this.

I have read for years now, just how steadfast these wonderful HW women/wives really are toward their husbands, they deserve the same loyalty and appreciation back.

David in SC

Nothing is forever. Just the nature of things.

NewspaperLover

GOP: I agree with what you are saying but disagree with the time to move on Not sure what the answer is however and hopefully thats what we are all trying to figure out here....

an38: I would agree that my wife stuck with me threw the diagnosis and the surgery as a loving wife and supported me, however I think the point the men are making is that we do not expect our wives to just lay down and perform, that we want their participation in our recovery. The ability to have sex physically and emotionally is a VERY big part of the recovery from the ED caused by the "cure" of PCA. I think that is all we are asking for/expecting, is the same commitment from our spouses to help us physically threw recovery from surgery for now physical, emotional support threw the recovery of the ED.

As for me I am starting to feel that all the work and meds I took for the past 2 years to keep the blood flowing and to "get something back" down there is kinda for nothing as my wife has made the decision for us that we do not have sex anymore.

 

James C. said...
I suppose we will have to just chalk it up to gender differences and leave it at that.

James C, no way!  I don't want to be associated with stupid **** like this comment (from earlier in this thread) "sex is at least 70% of a relationship," which is why, like An38, I've just stayed away...