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Exercise question -- Casey, et. al.

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Posted 1/24/2013 6:09 PM (GMT -5)
I've been trying to get back to the gym on a regular basis.

Here is what has been happening lately:

I get in a good workout session. I do the treadmill and a variety of nautalus type machines. It's about a 90 minute real good session. BUT, the next day I start to get very sore and much worse the day after. It seems to take 5-6 days before I am feeling back to normal. This has not happened like this in days past. Quite often I might be sore for a day or two but then I'm good to go. I'm sure part of this is the ageing process. But is there anything I can do to lessen this problem? Is it the order of exerises, or should I try some particular supplement?

I guess maybe I can do less at my gym session, but in general I have no problems doing the workout. It is the day after (and the days after that) where problems emerge. The main problem is that I probably shouldn't go back to the gym when I'm quite sore.

Mel

Posted 1/24/2013 6:16 PM (GMT -5)
go easy at first and take more rest.  then slowly ramp up.  to do otherwise is to invite injury which could make you quit.

i'd say at first no more than 30 minutes at the gym.  that's weights and cardio. 

i work out three days and take a day off.  but i take off more time if i need it.  maybe try one day on and one off for awhile.

ed

Posted 1/24/2013 6:20 PM (GMT -5)
If you're getting back to the gym, 90 mins is a long workout. I usually start with 30 after a long layoff. It's probably the long workout combined with a few extra years.
Posted 1/24/2013 6:20 PM (GMT -5)
Mel,

You don't have to go crazy the first time back in the gym.  I would say go easy on yourself at the beginning.  90 mins. is a long workout.  As long as you do something.  Perhaps walk 30 mins. a day or at least every other day.

I try to run (jog) or bike for 30 mins. every other day.  The other days I try to do some type of resistance training...lift weights, or do pushups, etc...

JL

Posted 1/24/2013 6:32 PM (GMT -5)
Mel have some one at the gym show you how to self massage with a foam roller. or google. matter of fact you got the big bucks, get a personal trainer. I pooh poohed them for along time, but have done 6 to 8 sessions with one concentrating on core training. its amazing how long we live with our bias for or against something, then do it, get pissed at ourself for wasting so much time. If you do make sure he /she is cerified. A lot of people get them for motivation. I got one for his knowledge. you might google personnel trainer to know what to look for. they will help you big time. Mel The only time I am not sore is when I am working out or moving. I sit for 5 min and I need an oil can to start moving. Also the rest of the guys are right too much too soon. Btw I do not foam roll myself, hence previous statement. So I will take my own advice and get one and do it. They should have them at you gym. regards
Posted 1/24/2013 6:56 PM (GMT -5)
Mel,
Like others said, 90 minutes is a long workout, for me at least. I do about 30 minutes of resistance every 3 days and around 45 minutes of walking on most days. When I start up after a layoff period, I will definitely be sore for the first few times. But, then after a few sessions, I get used to it. My challenge, on the resistance training, is that my body eventually adjusts to the routine, after a long while, and I stall-out as far strength progress goes. I then work with my trainer and we come up with a different routine to try and jump start progress. I also try to vary the sequence of the routine so I can avoid stalling my progress.
SC
Posted 1/24/2013 6:58 PM (GMT -5)
Mel, I have no constructive advice. So I will just suggest that you may be suffering from the same issues that many of us now have, the "it'shelltogetold" disease.

Jim
Posted 1/24/2013 10:57 PM (GMT -5)
Mel, don't try to get in shape in one week. At our age it is better to start with 30 minutes of exercise (walking, treadmill,..) and may be few resistance exercises. You can increase the load a little the second week and so on. When I started my walking routine, I did 2 miles 3 or 4 times a week, I increased it to 3 miles after a couple of weeks after a while I started walking 5 to six miles when I play golf.
Posted 1/24/2013 11:48 PM (GMT -5)
I agree with what seems to be the consensus that your 90 minute workout may be a bit aggressive when you are just getting back into things.

I will occasionally get a bit ambitious (not often, but it does happen) and I can find myself pretty sore when it is time for my next workout. When that happens I do a bit more on the treadmill (to be sure I am well warmed up) and back off on the resistance. I don't like to miss a session but a light session when I am sick or hurting is OK.
Posted 1/24/2013 11:59 PM (GMT -5)
might want to try some amino acids.
Posted 1/25/2013 8:48 AM (GMT -5)
Mel, I would suggest breaking up the cardio and weight/circuit training. For instance I do my cardio in the morning and then lift in the evening. 90 minutes all at once may be a bit too much, depending on how you are sequencing all of this. Also your comment about being "sore" - sore is a good thing, pain is not, so be sure you know the difference.

FYI if you complete a good, solid workout you should feel it a little the next day and then a little more the second day - that's your muscles telling you that they got worked out!

One of the trainers I hired early on made a statement that I continue to live by, in more ways than one = "Listen to Your Body."

Stay with it, it's the right thing just be sure not to overdue it. I've seen so many hit the gym for their "New Year's Resolution" and expect results in weeks, when in reality if you do things right and stay committed it will take months and months.

And oh yeah, one final quote for the day = "It's not a resolution, it's a Lifestyle!"

Best to you Mel.
Posted 1/25/2013 9:02 AM (GMT -5)
Let me simply say that if I had 90 minute workout I would be sore for couple days too, and I didn't have SRT last year. My typical workout is half that long.

While there is not complete consensus, what I've found is that most experts agree that a little bit every day or almost every day is better than too much on a less frequent basis.

It's probably worth acknowledging to yourself that if you want to exercise every day or almost every day you might have to take a step back and ask what your life priorities are. It might not be a bad time to reassess.

Many of the people who make an actual lifestyle modification don't think of workouts as a task or a chore, but instead they look at it as their commitment to themselves, their spouse, kids, grandkids or other loved ones to take personal responsibility for what they can do to be around for a long time, and not be grumpy (QOL).

Post Edited (Casey59) : 1/25/2013 7:23:39 AM (GMT-7)

Posted 1/25/2013 10:58 AM (GMT -5)
Casey:

I never used to get that sore. It is hard to distinguish between soreness and painfulness. I would say soreness.

Let me be more specific. I do the treadmill for 6-12 laps (closer to 6 but when I start going more often I'll increase that -- I can in fact do 12 now if desired -- at speeds of 3.0-4.2, mostly 3.6 -- so it is not that fast but enough to get my heartrate into the desired range).

I then do the following machines:

BICEPS CURL
MATRIX CHEST PRESS
MATRIX ABS. CRUNCH
CYBER PLATE LOADED ROW
HAMMER CHEST PRESS
CYBEX LATERAL PULLDOWN
ROPE PULLDOWN
BACK EXTENSIONS

I do not do any leg machines. I have had serious knee issues (including surgery for a meniscus torn in two places coupled with arthritis). I am doing great with the knees but it seems stuff even like leg extensions results in some knee pain, enough to cause concern.

Now to my question. I gather I should cut down. I see no point in cutting down on the treadmill as that does not seem to be causing any issues. My soreness is upper body.

SHOULD I JUST DO 1 OR 2 REPS (I usually do 3 reps of 10), or cut out half the machines, or ...?

Mel

 

Posted 1/25/2013 11:31 AM (GMT -5)
·          Exercise every day for up to an hour ·          Lift weights three times per week; alternate different body parts o     Chest & triceps one day o     Back and biceps the next time o     Leg muscles and shoulders on the third day ·          Focus on cardio fitness on alternating days     Let us know how your “soreness” is at the end of February (at the end of the PC/Aerobic Challenge) after a mere month of following the guidelines I provided which were published by the Prostate Cancer Foundation in their free online booklet:   “ Nutrition, Exercise and Prostate Cancer .”    Can you follow PCF guidelines for a month?    
Posted 1/25/2013 11:32 AM (GMT -5)
I do a every other day routine of 30 minutes elliptical, and then a routine of upper body similar to yours Mel, 2 sets of 10 reps. I don't do legs either, my knees are worn out enough that they get enough work on the machine and just hauling me around.
I would suggest cutting the reps on the machines to 2 sets. 3 or 4 sets of reps sounds like to much to me. I've been doing this for about 5 years now, changing machines routinely so as to not get in a rut, works for me any way. Good luck, find the balance that works for you.
Posted 1/25/2013 11:49 AM (GMT -5)
Mel, your approach to exercise should be based on what you are trying to accomplish. What you are currently doing is what is most commonly referred to as the "circuit", which is usually the approach for someone that is looking to keep themselves in overall good condition. Doing body parts per day is typically the approach when you are trying to build muscle selectively - either by toning or by increasing size/mass.

When it comes to sets/reps the standard is 3 sets - but then the reps are defined again by what your are trying to do and also need to have the amount of weight being lifted added to the equation. For example if you are looking to keep toned you would adjust the weight down to where you are comfortably able to do 10-12 reps - conversely if you are looking to gain mass then you would increase the weight and then target 6-8 reps. In all cases these are targets that you may need to build up to - again consider both amount of weight and reps and work to increase both over time.

With respect to cardio - if you're doing it to "warm up" before lifting then somewhere around 10 minutes at a 'casual' rate would suffice. If you are looking to do cardio for, well, cario purposes, then the standard approach is 5 minutes slow to warm up, then 30-40 minutes at what is called a cardio training zone - whereby you determine both your maximum heart rate and your resting heart rate. Your maximum heart rate is found by subtracting your age from 220, and your resting heart rate can be found by taking your pulse after you have been sitting for 10 to 15 minutes. Subtract your resting heart rate from your maximum heart rate, then multiply that number by 0.7 and again by 0.8. Then, add your resting heart rate to the results. The two resulting numbers represent the range in which you should keep your heart rate to achieve an aerobic workout. The finish to a cardio workout is then 5 minutes at the slow down rate again.

O.K., time for the caveat - I am NOT a fitness trainer, however I spent significant time and $$$ hiring professional trainers to teach me the correct approach to my exercise regime - I did not want to waste my time 'going through the motions' but rather wanted every minute I spend to count towards the best possible results.

I also had the opportunity to build an entire professional level gym in my basement - my son used to work for a company that sold and installed workout equipment at Gold's and others, and I was able to get in on a closeout sale and went for it!

So then my input to ya Mel is based on experience but not expertise!!!!!

Best to you, and keep it going!
Posted 1/25/2013 12:51 PM (GMT -5)
Thanks for all your suggestions. Lots of things to think about.

My main problem is getting out there and just doing it. In the past, if I got out there say three times a week for even 3 weeks, I would then be in a groove and feel uncomfortable NOT doing it. I am trying to get that groove back.

The soreness has been holding me back. I guess I will (reluctantly) go to two reps of 10 each and see what happens with an idea of getting back up to three in the near future.

Mel

Posted 1/25/2013 12:59 PM (GMT -5)
Mel, why not just try the PCF guidelines which I wrote above rather than reinvent the wheel?

They were written for men, well...like you.

I realize that change is difficult, but try it for a month.

Posted 1/25/2013 1:00 PM (GMT -5)
A little off topic, but I remember reading about the sequence of exercises.  I think doing weight training and cardio independent of each other is optimal, but I realize many guys want to do it all on the same day.  In that case the article suggested that weight training should come first than do cardio.  The reason is because of hardening of the arteries.

"...Multiple bouts of weight training can potentially wear on the lining of the arteries and stress the heart. Cardio on the other hand makes vessels more compliant and enhances their health and function...Japanese researchers found that doing cardio after weight training compensated for the effects of weight training on blood vessel stiffness. Doing cardio before weight training had no protective effect."

 

Just a thought.

 

Posted 1/25/2013 1:04 PM (GMT -5)
wait a minute - I've been reading and re-reading this thread and don't know what to say.

you exercise on purpose? I mean you go to the gym and willing lift heavy things and get into a sweat?

Really?

Wow, I am impressed. Usually I just take a brisk walk to starbucks...

All the best,
Andrew
Posted 1/25/2013 1:16 PM (GMT -5)
Andrew -- I understand....It can be a foreign thing to many. 

But I would be walkin to Dunkin Donuts for their coffee instead of Starbucks...Now, that's real coffe...

Posted 1/25/2013 1:18 PM (GMT -5)
Andrew:

In my case, of late, it appears that any exercise is purely accidental.

Casey -- thanks for the link. It is interesting.

The key remains: doing it. They talk a LOT about proper nutrition, too. That is also a major lifestyle change for many. They talk about doing exercise (different groups) every day. It still boils down to just doing it. Frankly, if I can get back to REGULAR workouts, it would be helpful. Anyway, that was a good reference.

I might add that I am reasonably active at work. I am one of those dynamic teachers -- I am animated and move around a lot. Obviously that is not the same as doing a treadmill or formal exercise, but it is something. My long days consist of 3 90 minutes classes and I doubt if I am sitting at my desk for 3 minutes total.

Mel

Posted 1/25/2013 9:34 PM (GMT -5)
Mel, there are very few things in life that are 100%. But for me, I can say this truthfully, 100% of the time, I can never honestly say… " you know what, I sure wish I never did this work out" Never said it, never felt it. 100%. Anybody I ever tell that to, will smile, nod there head and say you know what….. thats right. Just do it and stay consistence. If you do, it will take discipline, NOT to work out, {normal rest, injury}, not discipline to work out. and sooner than you think. Let Your capital "I" rule{ spirit}, not your little "i" {flesh}… Please take it for what it is worth and in the spirit in which it is given…...
Posted 1/25/2013 10:05 PM (GMT -5)
Logo

I agree

Mel

Posted 1/25/2013 10:24 PM (GMT -5)
there are two types of people.

the first type drags himself to the gym even dead tired because he knows if he can't suit up on the bad days he won't be there on the good days.  maybe he pulls a muscle in his shoulder.  instead of taking a couple weeks off from the gym to heal he will drop the excercises that aggravate the shoulder and do others or just concentrate on cardio.

the second type burns hot and sets unrealistic expectations and when he fails to meet them begins missing days and after awhile quits his routine altogether.  he's always in the process of beginning or quitting a routine.

this has nothing to do with being lazy. 

if you are the first type you don't need classes, a trainer or a workout partner.  the second type benefits from any extra help he can get to. 

i think first you have to figure out which group you are in and then devise a plan.  mind you, at our age and stage of infirmity the self-starters are usually already doing it.

ed

 

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