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A forum is political and politics is a forum, by definition. Think ancient greece. A forum for the sick and dying that disallows spirituality is grotesque and takes away the last hope of those involved. It matters not the good that is done in such an environment. Flavored poison ultimately kills. This is the United States of America for goodness sake. Political and religious freedom is the foundation of our society. To have one man that never responds to these issues, but to fiddle while Rome burns is a disgrace. I am ashamed to have been a member of this anti-forum as long as I have. It actually needs to be investigated for its unconstitutional practices. The individual people belonging are great, as well as the moderators. but they "innocently" operate in a type of setting that millions have died to prevent. What do you think the odds of this post lasting in this type of setting. Well at least one person will read it and hopefully have some sense of decency, be cause it is a decidedly American post against the evils of facism and tyranny. Aloha Nui Loa, Logoslidat

Davidg the issues you mention are the messiness of a democracy. In do respect this will be my last post, its significant, to me, that is to the youth of Pca. Good luck to you in these the trying times ahead, Godspeed.

I'm a guest in the house that Peter built..... His rules override any and all of my Constitutional Rights and I'm fine with that.

If and when I can no longer abide by his rules, I'll leave quietly and not raise a fuss.

logoslidat said...
A forum is political and politics is a forum, by definition. Think ancient greece. A forum for the sick and dying that disallows spirituality is grotesque and takes away the last hope of those involved. It matters not the good that is done in such an environment. Flavored poison ultimately kills. This is the United States of America for goodness sake. Political and religious freedom is the foundation of our society. To have one man that never responds to these issues, but to fiddle while Rome burns is a disgrace. I am ashamed to have been a member of this anti-forum as long as I have. It actually needs to be investigated for its unconstitutional practices. The individual people belonging are great, as well as the moderators. but they "innocently" operate in a type of setting that millions have died to prevent. What do you think the odds of this post lasting in this type of setting. Well at least one person will read it and hopefully have some sense of decency, be cause it is a decidedly American post against the evils of facism and tyranny. Aloha Nui Loa, Logoslidat

Huh?

davidg, JohnT, Purg - I'll simply say "ditto" to what you guys have posted - my thoughts exactly so thanks for putting them out here.

Also to Steve n Dallas and Tud's point - We are guests in the house that Peter built - if you don't like or can't follow the rules, you don't have to be here. This is NOT pointed solely at Logo, but rather all of us, myself included.

I've seen this type of issue on my quilting message board before, and even where I recently worked.
Some people, after having been a member of a group for some time, begin somehow (??) to believe they have ownership in it - always without any money or risk of their own invested in it.
In my opinion we are 'guests' here, and can either appreciate how it is run, or choose another board. Therein lies your freedom Logoslidat, you can freely choose the type of board you wish to be on.
And in my opinion this board is run wonderfully. :)

Logo, you are free to leave, unlike Socrates.

Logo,

In the November 9th, 1895 issue of Punch magazine there was a cartoon drawn by George du Maurier. It shows a Bishop and a Curate sitting at a dinner party among other guests, eating and and conversing. The caption reads --

Bishop: "I'm afraid you've got a bad egg, Mr Jones."

Curate: "Oh, no, my Lord, I assure you that parts of it are excellent!"

Bearing that in mind I'd like to rise in defense of several sentences from your comment (which went rather badly off into the weeds after that.)

You said...
A forum for the sick and dying that disallows spirituality is grotesque and takes away the last hope of those involved. It matters not the good that is done in such an environment. Flavored poison ultimately kills.

That's an interesting statement and, I think, has a good degree of truth to it. The prostate cancer forum is open to anyone who has been affected by prostate cancer, directly or indirectly, particularly anyone who needs support or can offer it. That includes people of faith who, I think, constitute a fair part of our membership. On the other hand there is rule six which, as I read it, forbids "posts of an overtly religious nature". Clearly there is a tension between the goals and it is the job of the moderators to draw lines.

If one takes a hard line on rule six and religion one risks driving away some of the people who most need our help. We have threads here from time to time that consist mostly of amazingly brave women supporting one another while the men they love slowly slip inexorably beyond the reach of medical science. It is an act of courage for me simply to click into those threads. They are inspiring to read but also painful. Rule six still applies -- if I think "members" have wandered in for the express purpose of exploiting others vulnerability to try to proselytize, I will run them off -- but if people start to queue up to offer wishes and prayer I will join in. I may have by doubts about the efficacy of prayer, and especially about the "To Whom it may concern" prayers of a crusty old agnostic, but that is not the right venue to talk about my personal doubts. If I think a promise of "prayers" will help more than "wishes" or "thoughts" then prayers it is.

Logo,

Sorry to see you go. At least I will have the pleasure of meeting you on the GFMPH cruise.

We can talk about anything there. Greece, Rome, beliefs, emperors, apples and oranges PSA test... whatever. :)

But, I do agree that here we must try our best to follow the rules.

Another well thought out and stated reply PeterDA - thanks much. 

Are you sure they're paying you enough for this? 

LOL,
Bill your golf scores must really be sucking right now. You're spending way too much time in front of a computer.

It's probably a grip issue. LOL get a new grip...

Tony

PeterDisAbelard said...
Yoop:

With regard to the word "overtly" in rule 6, I started to go that way but, actually, that argument is pretty wobbly. The opposite of an "overt" religious message is a "covert" or "hidden" message. I wanted to say that people of faith could post openly and honestly as long as their posts weren't only, or mostly, about their faith (and not about prostate cancer at all.) The stronger argument is to be made about the overall rule. Posts can contain religious sentiments as long as that is not their primary thrust. A few religious flourishes do not establish a post's "nature". Religious posts are not allowed. Posts with religious parts are allowed as long as their primary content is prostate cancer-related and secular.

As with spam my idea is to enforce the rules enough so that the forum is not attractive to preachers (or to spamsters) while allowing religious members to wish each other well or members to give each other hints about where they shop for drugs and what sort of prices they pay.

I should note here that I am speaking for myself and not necessarily for the other mods. My comments on this thread are intended to explain how I will interpret rule 6. Other interpretations are equally valid and other moderators may react differently.

Peter,
If you mean "you are in my prayers" or "I feel blessed my treatment went so well" I agree with you that they are not overtly religious posts. But once you start crediting deities with successful or hoped for successful treatment or even crediting that deity with helping you cope with the disease you are promoting that deity and your system of belief to others,whether you do it consciously or not. The recent "Glory to God ALone" (albeit in Latin) IS proselytizing (i.e. promoting a specific religious belief)

TC-LasVegas said...
LOL,
Bill your golf scores must really be sucking right now. You're spending way too much time in front of a computer.

It's probably a grip issue. LOL get a new grip...

Tony

How did you know Tony: but sadly I cannot blame computer time. Perhaps I should lay the blame for my latest struggles with the game at the feet of Huitzilopochtli and my failure to sacrifice the necessary virgin. Sadly as you know they are becoming difficult to find.