PeterDA's Apology Thread.

Update: Case59, the member to whom I am largely apologizing below has offered his own apology in a seperate thread: www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=35&m=2776762&p=1
He asked me to lock his thread so members won't be tempted to continue the arguments (for which we have both apologized) on his thread. I ask you to respect his wishes by not continuing them here, either.

Do read his apology which is rather more gracefully written than mine, and which, at least on my part, is gratefully accepted.


OK, here goes.

So, which should I do first, the apology or the context in which I would like it understood? I think I will start with an executive summary of the apology, then do the context and finish with the apology proper.

Executive summary: In several threads today I have made ill-advised, inappropriate and unfair statements about Casey59, attributing to him personally things that are more fairly my frustrations with certain polarized discussions we have been having lately. It was unfair of me and I am sorry for that. It also made me a participant in the discussions when, as a moderator, I probably should keep my opinions to myself.

Context: Last night, right before bed I locked a thread that had been deteriorating all day. Members from both sides of the discussion had emailed me to complain, each of course indicating that the other side was causing all the trouble. Both sides were convinced that the other side had deliberately provoked the argument in an effort to get the thread locked, but the thread had gotten so overheated that everyone seemed to agree that, while it was a shame, the thread needed to be locked. They only disagreed on who was originally at fault.

The argument seemed to center around Casey who was, for the most part, saying things that I agreed with but in an abrasive fashion that didn't seem likely to change anyone's opinions any time soon. Casey cares about the bald facts and on the bald facts I agreed with Casey, other members (notably DavidG but there are others) worry about the tone of the discussion and the sensibilities of members who dislike hearing treatment decisions similar to their own questioned. I agreed with them that Casey was being insensitive. So I waited until Casey said something I found not too confrontational and then typed a quick response that started with "Thanks, Casey. Well said." and locked the thread giving him the last word. I then went to bed thinking I had defused the situation.

I woke up this morning to a rather frosty short note from 142 (who may still be mad at me) wondering why I wasn't more angry about Casey's "Peanut Gallery" comment which he found offensive.

I rather groggily wondered what he was talking about. Then reading over the thread I had locked I found that while I was typing the note locking the thread there were two more comments posted that I had never seen. The first was from 142 saying that Casey had quoted him out of context and the second was a rather snide comment (or so it seemed to me) from Casey that read Let's open it up to the peanut gallery now...142, you're first.

That was the context in which my "Thanks, Casey. Well said" appeared. URGH! It's not an easy job being a moderator here. We do try to stick together. I didn't like how that thread had ended at all. I had tried to wait until he said something unobjectionable so I could end the "Thank you Casey59" thread on an equitable note but I was too slow. This got me off on the wrong foot today and rather cross with Casey and when more threads popped up in which Casey was his usual polarizing self I pitched in which I shouldn't have done for lots of reasons.

Hmmm. While I've been typing this you guys have continued to lay on on the other thread. Not making it much easier. But whatever...

The Apology:

I haven't covered myself with glory in the past day or so on the forum. I allowed myself to become frustrated and took out my frustrations in ways inappropriate for a forum moderator. Several members have suggested that an apology is necessary and I agree. In particular I owe an apology to Casey59. Here it is. This is it. It's reasonably sincere. And it's all you are going to get and more than some of you deserve.

Now please stop fighting for a while. I can't do this every day.

Peter,
I am full of admiration for the job 142 and you do as moderators. Such a thankless but so necessary task. You both have a fine line to walk and manage to do it very well. The remark re "the peanut gallery" directed at 142 was inexcusable and says much about the poster and his real purpose in the forum. It is the measure of a man when he can admit he was in the wrong and that is what makes you a fine moderator. It is a pity the concept is completely foreign to the "font of all wisdom".
On a different note be careful not to upset 142 ----- he has special powers and contacts and could reach out and do you a mischief
Bill

Thanks Peter. Well said.

I'm a victim of people who dated in the 70s.

Peter knows leadership

oh no, not "love story". I got thrown out of a theater when that movie came out, for standing up and ruining the ending for everyone. back when they had ushers with little organ grinder monkeys hats on their heads.

david

Post Edited (Purgatory) : 6/26/2013 10:17:01 PM (GMT-6)

Peter,
Over the years I've participated in guitar forums, town government forums, veterans forums, this forum etc. Without question, any and all of these can quickly devolve into sharp words which can then further devolve into flame wars. I have the utmost respect for moderators, like you and others, who are willing to read all of this and intervene to the best of your judgment to keep the peace. It's kind of like being a town Selectman -- if you stay in office long enough you will eventually alienate everyone. It's a tough job and I'm really glad there are people like you who are willing to step up and do it.

Jim

Good job, Peter. With the highest regards.

I am on the verge of my final post at HW because of the rising disrespectfulness and locked threads that needs a kick in the arse. I've grown tired of it. Casey is "abusive" only in the sense of the amount this guy cares about us and about all that will enter our club. I have broke bread with this man and he is one of the most caring men I have ever met. Make no mistake, you can force out an opinion, but it won't succeed at helping everyone.

Advocate news is not intended to be popular news and that moment it is it's not advocate news it's propaganda towards an agenda.

This is not an advocacy site? Fine I'll move on.

This site sucks if it's all about what you want to hear. It's about sharing and caring or I'm outa here.

Tony

Post Edited (TC-LasVegas) : 6/26/2013 8:23:14 PM (GMT-6)

Tony,

I've been sitting here trying to decide what I want to say. I started to ask that you wait a few days before you go to give the guys a chance to cool off and see how ridiculous they are being. But while I was sitting here you edited your comment indicating that you are even angrier. So maybe waiting isn't a good idea.

I'm having a bit of trouble telling who you are mad at. The "highest regards" thing is a bit stiff and I've been fighting with your friend today so I may well be me. I'll be glad to apologize to you, too, if that would help. I'm on a roll.

Before you leave you might check out this thread

https://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=35&m=2775251

Several of the participants in today's cage match checked out of the fight -- like the wolf and the sheepdog in a Warner Brother's cartoon when the whistle blows -- to answer a question someone had asked and to support one another a bit while they were there. There's a lot of "sharing and caring" that goes on in this forum. The guys will settle down in a bit and soon they'll be fighting about something else.

For my part I wish you'd stay on.

Tony:

I would never want to see you at the point of "no return". You were part of my original HW PC family when I came aboard in 2008, and can't imagine the place without you. I for one, have learned a lot from you over the years. And you were always a good and fair moderator, I speak from first hand experience on that remark.

Of course, will always respect your personal decisions, wouldn't want to be selfish. We all have to make our own choices in such troublesome matters. Just hoping there can be some kind of win-win compromise that could make you want to stay. I always assumed you would always be here.

david in sc

So strange I almost see it as a big misunderstanding. PeterD, I did not see that first sentence or 2 as anything but sincere from TC. The rest of his post advocacy and all I haven;t kept up on so don't know.anything about that. I will say iI have never thought either of you as the sarcastic type or mean spirited., in any way. Ive got a disconnect on the beef between the two of you. Its blindsideing me. I get the other beefs. This is drastic, but may a forced truce would help, by forced I mean shut the forum down for a week. I mean a locked forum, it could sift something out. I really do not understand Peter Waite in all this. He make one statement, that changes nothing and identifies as "admin" I find it really strange, almost cold. May be there should be a chat nite with peter there and have an open forum, just to clear the air. You guys have worked in major co's, govt etc Isn't it normal to have a how goes it session, now and then with the troops. something is missing in this puzzle. what the heck is it? Or maybe he should hire a COO or something, if his personality type does'y know what to do. Its no shame, plenty owners do it. Its a very curious situation.

Tony,
When I joined this forum, "Bud" was the: "spirit" and you were the "guiding light" providing us with up to date news with everything PC and providing good advice to members-you were our leader! What the hell happened? All I see now is a moderator and former moderator supporting different "cage" fighters who probably just like to argue--no debate involved..Until recently this was a "healingwell forum; now it has turned into a caustic debating(?) society..I've seen too many men-myself included-verbally attacked for no valid reason..I'm not here for that!! Walk around the "Bellagio" and if you don't melt or get mugged go home and have a "cold beer" or 2 ..I'm not pissed at you except you are throwing in the towels you are a better man than that!
Billboards

Peter DA, we're all human and subject to all kinds of weaknesses and frailties. Your apology was thoughtful, heartfelt and humorous...and hopefully was accepted and appreciated by all involved.

Tony, I understand your frustration and would be heartbroken if we were to lose your friendship and wisdom. As you've told me in the past when I too had reached my limit on being able to tolerate the BS flung around here sometimes, "hang on"...this will never be a perfect site but we all can and should do better.

I have no problems with discussions around advocacy issues, even if they get a bit heated. Debate is good...it's healthy, it fires up the old brain cells and sometimes forces us to see a situation in a different light. I am far less tolerant of those threads where the sole purpose is to keep a person in the spotlight rather than a particular subject.

Purg, point well taken, and you are right. Bad idea on my part.

Yooper, while I agree with the assessment in the first part of your post (well...mostly), I don't see anything wrong with the original apology, which concerned the non-moderator statements made and not his moderator duties. I admire him for separating the two and being objective.

I also don't agree that everyone here who doesn't have the time or abilities to serve as moderator should just "shut the hell up already".

Okay, I'm not contributing much of use here and no one seems to choose primary IMRT anymore anyway, which is about the only subject to which I can contribute. So, carry on.