Vietnam and agent orange

Hello all,

Paul and I just returned from a two week trip to Vietnam - Hoi An, Hue, Saigon (Ho Chi Minh city) and the Can Tho in the Mekong Delta.

We spent a little time in the war remnants museum in Ho Chi Minh City and in the Cu Chi tunnels northwest of the city. In the museum we saw the awful impact of Agent Orange on the population of Vietnam. Following that we could not help but notice some of the older generation with chemical scars and the younger generation with clear birth defects.

It made me think of this site and the number of Veterens here who have also been affected by this and other chemicals in regards to their prostate cancer.

It was an enjoyable visit to Vietnam - great food, hospitality and
Lovely people - but also a very sobering visit.

An

Post Edited (An38) : 8/9/2014 10:59:04 PM (GMT-6)

Just a few stray thoughts about Vietnam:

While in the hospital recovering from the robot (that so far has kept my PCa at bay) I overheard two nurses talking about another patient and the scarring he had - he, and they, attributed it to Agent Orange. And even though I'm from that era I had never heard that before.

Secondly, your post reminded me of a very close friend in High School who joined the Army immediately after graduating and was sent to Vietnam. He was in-country in 1968 and saw the Tet Offensive first hand. He mentioned that several VC appeared within the company area even though the perimeter was never breached. At the time he thought that perhaps they were simply people hired to do general cleaning etc. around the company area. Where was he? Um, yup - Cu-Chi. Tunnels under the area - I'm thinking so.

And finally, I also thought about a gentlemen I had the honor to work with for a few years. He recently retired. He and I often talked about our time in the Army. Before he left he brought some mementos that he had kept; two purple hearts with the original orders and a Bronze Star with a V for Valor.

And he also found, at the bottom of the trunk where he kept these items, a single M16 Cartridge. I believe he left Vietnam in 1969. This single round was carried back to the US in his duffle bag and sat in that trunk for the last almost half century!

He gave it to me and asked me to dispose of it (he knows I occasionally teach firearms safety/concealed carry etc.) and target shoot a lot. No way I'd ever throw it away. It's proudly displayed on the shelf behind my bar. To me it speaks volumes of that era.

Sorry for core dump/stream of consciousness - funny how a short post can elicit so many memories...

And completely off topic -

My surgery was exactly 3 years ago yesterday. My latest PSA blood draw was Friday - still waiting for the results. As always, any prayers would be appreciated.

amick said:

" ...funny how a short post can elicit so many memories..."

Amen to that.

An -

As I have noted before in some threads on this forum, I was stationed at CuChi base camp (yes, the place of the tunnels) during my tour in Vietnam, from November 1969-November 1970. I was a First Lieutenant in the 579th Signal Company, 86th Signal Battalion, 25th Infantry Division which was located there.

I also noted in a forum once that I myself may have gotten an Agent Orange exposure, since part of the III Corps area where CuChi was turned out to be the single most heavily AO-defoliated area of the entire country during the war. Did that have any impact on my own case of PCa? Possibly, but like so many other things with this mysterious disease, it's impossible to say for sure.

I've sometimes thought about going back to Vietnam now, forty-plus years later, as a tourist this time, although I doubt now that it will ever happen. I do know that some guys who were there say they get a cathartic effect out of doing so, and I know I would be very interested in seeing that museum they have there, and really fascinated to visit those tunnels in person. (Was not an option for me in '69-'70, when the tunnels were occupied by "other persons," and as an officer I didn't qualify as a "tunnel rat").

Yes, we do have a number of forum members here who served in "Nam" (Gunfighter, JohnT, Purgatory, come to mind, and there are some others).

If you would like some more particular details about CuChi, since I was there during the war, I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have, since you seem interested in the place. Perhaps offline would be better, and you can reach me by email by clicking on my username (81GyGuy) in the left margin, which brings up my profile and lists my email address.

Please contact me if you want more information. I'd be happy to help if I can.

81,

Yes, you probably did mention it but I had never heard of the CuChi tunnels till I actually visited Vietnam. I was born in 1971 and I just didn't know as much about Vietnam as I should have. Thank you for the offer of more information offline.

Vietnam is relatively modern and beautiful now - Hoi An was my favourite place. It is popular with Australian tourists. But it does have an awful history and I will never forget the war remnants museum and the tunnels. And the effect of Agent orange.

An

Any vet who served in Vietnam that was diagnosed with PCa should file a claim with the VA (BEFORE) you have treatment. PCa as a result of Agent Organge is pre-approved and fast track. I know most vets are aware... but just a friendly reminder for anyone. My boyfriend had served and is receiving benefits. If you file before you have treatment, you'll get a higher benefit.

81,
Your post reminded me of an incidence. We captured an NVA colonel of intelligence one night. During interrogation he insisted that Cu Chi base and the 25th infantry was wiped out in an attack the week before. Our commander, George Patton, (the big guy's son) said take this SOB and fly him to Cu Chi and give him a tour of the base. I heard that after he saw the intact base and 20,000 25th infantry guys he started singing like a bird. Funny what a little dose of reality will do to your beliefs. Glad it didn't happen and you made it home.
JT

2,4-dicholorphenoxyacetic acid, combined with 2,4,5-tricholphenoxyacetic acid and TCCD; 1,1 thiobis (2-chloroethane); and Hydrogen Cyanide, (Agent Orange, Mustard Gas, and Zyklon B) are three of the chemical horrors visited on humankind in the most murderous century (the 20th) in human history.

My boyfriend was a green beret, special forces in Vietnam.  Has absolutely no desire to go back.  His thinking is he got out alive once, doesn't want to tempt fate and go back.  His luck, he would get hit by a bus.

Tim,

Your post was spot on. It was a horrible agent we used. We concern ourselves about our own vets exposed or possibly exposed to AO, but think of the ten's of thousands of innocent Viet-Nam civilians that died and were maimed in the process. It was a terrible thing to unleash. And the effects are still being felt 40 plus years later. Thanks for bringing that up.

David

Amazing return home from Viet-Nam story there, Bohemond. What a way to go (the bus fire), had your perished after doing a tour in Nam.

I came back home via a Red Cross Medical plane to Bethesda Naval Hospital in DC. Later sent to the Naval Hospital in Philly where I was eventually discharged. Then it was Greyhound back to Florida, all I can barely remember, was being cussed out a few times for serving in general, and then the ultimate getting flipped off for being the proverbial "baby" killer at the bus station by some hippy looking people.

These days, if you serve in Kansas, replenishing the latrine supplies, the public wants to give you a Purple Heart and insist you are a hero. Different times, different attitude. No offense to a single vet that have served in our more recent wars, you are still putting your self in harms way for your country. Just trying to make a point about "our war".

All I need to remind myself of what really went on, was to stroll down the "Wall" in DC. If that doesn't sober up someone from our generation, seeing those 5X,000 plus names, nothing would.

David

P.S.  on that particular Red Cross flight, there were as many filled body bags, as there were room for living patients, I will never forget that feeling of seeing on the floor of the plane.  Can't get that out of my mind this many years later.

Post Edited (Purgatory) : 8/10/2014 11:13:35 PM (GMT-6)

Tim, sounds like you haven't been to the wall. I have only been there once and once only. It was around Christmas of 1988, when I was moving my family from NH to SC. We spent a full day in DC before making the rest of the trip.

At that time, it had been 27 years since I was in Nam, and I thought I could handle it, thought I could stroll the wall and keep my composure. But I didn't last long. I will admit, I was in quiet tears about 1/4 of the length of the wall. My kids didn't understand, had my wife have them walk to see something else while I continued the rest of the way on my own. She understood. Kids were 5, 7, and 11 at that time, and far too young to understand what was "wrong" with their dad.

For those too young to have either have lived or too young to remember, it's a good place to reflect on what took place. For those that don't remember for the same reasons, even before I was old enough to enlist as I did, I remember watching the daily body count with Walter Cronkite on the CBS News my father watched every night on TV. The numbers were so high, especially those wounded as opposed to those that were killed, that many of the current generation would be shocked and awed.

Hope you get the opportunity to visit it in the future. Next time I have the reason to go to DC, I want to see it again, but I am convinced I would still react the same way. I didn't come back missing any limbs, and obviously didn't come back in a body bag, or remained MIA, but I sure knew way too many people by name that weren't as fortunate as myself, or the other Nam PC posters here at HW PC.

When I came back I was treated with nothing but respect, even in California the heart of Hippie land. I spent 3 months at the LA VA hospital and some of us would sneak out at night with our wheel chairs and go to the strip bars in Santa Monica. We never had to buy a drink.
When I go to the Wall I still get choked up especial when I see my former Platoon sergeant's name. He was in Korea in 1950 as a 18 year old kid and became a successful executive for NBC in NY city. He reenlisted in 1968 as a private and became a SSG in a year. He was killed on August 17, 1969 holding off the NVA that had overrun a South Vietnamese base camp that was overrun so his liaison team could escape.