lycopene, selenium, and green tea catechins - safety concerns

sheepguy - exactly the point the oncology dieticians have been teaching me over the years. The how much part in particular, and what cause and effect it may have on your body, or in conjunction with legitimate medications one may be on.

What is rule 3?

What I find most disturbing is the guys who do only the alternative meds and not any other treatments. They seem to end up on the regimented treatments in the end and waste a bunch of time too.
I know a guy who is reluctantly doing HW for his PC, G 9, and thinks juicing pot and eating absolutely no carbs, fruit or sugar is the way to go..He asked me how I kept Gary's weight up. Well, you gotta eat to keep up the weight!

I have an older brother (2 1/2 yrs older) who of course has the same genetic and familial risk factors as I do. When he was a teenager, he adopted a vegetarian (not vegan) diet, and stayed on it until he was in his late 40's, when he developed hypoglycemia and needed to go to a high protein diet. He has a near zero PSA, and no apparent prostate symptoms of any kind. Luck? Diet?

For me the real lesson is to live healthy...don't smoke, drink in moderation or not at all, eat a balanced diet with good basics, exercise. Don't eat too many greasy hamburgers, etc. I'm convinced that our "normal"
American diet is terrible for us. Not only that, the "official" nutritional guidelines are suggested by those who profit from it, not by real nutritionists. I also note that back in my youth when I worked in food service, a standard controlled portion of meat was 4 ounces uncooked, and it was felt that a healthy adult needed between 1500 and 2000 calories a day. How many "small" meat portions at restaurants are 6 or 8 ounces? When did a small coke become 16 ounces? And how many fast food sandwich meals hit 700 calories or more? In that sense, we're poisoning ourselves.

After pondering the impact of this study, I'm not going to stop eating tomatoes, onions, garlic, or taking green tea extract pills and pomegranate pills.

Why? Because this Italian study included selenium, which recent research has shown to increase the risk of prostate cancer. All is takes is one bad component to influence the outcomes. So, until there is evidence that the other items are harmful, I will continue with them. They don't seem to have worsened my cancer, and may be retarding it.

Actually, the data on selenium is mixed, and it hasn't been shown to be harmful on its own. In fact, none of the ingredients have been shown to be harmful, or of any benefit, on its own.

In a similar randomized controlled trial (Phase 3- n=423) of the use of selenium alone in men with HG-PIN, supplementation with selenium was found to have no effect on the later development of prostate cancer. Three-year cancer rates were 37% for the placebo versus 36% for those taking selenium supplements - no significant difference.

Phase III Trial of Selenium to Prevent Prostate Cancer in Men with High-grade Prostatic Intraepithelial Neoplasia: SWOG S9917

In the follow-up to the SELECT trial, there were three conclusions about selenium:

(1) Selenium supplementation did not benefit men with low selenium status
(2) Selenium supplementation increased the risk of high-grade PCa among men with high selenium status
(3) Vitamin E increased the risk of PCa among men with low selenium status.

So. it's only when selenium is taken when serum selenium is already high, or when it is low and taken together with vitamin E that there appears to be harm.

Baseline Selenium Status and Effects of Selenium and Vitamin E Supplementation on Prostate Cancer Risk

As for green tea catechins, a similar RCT of that alone (400 mg EGCG per day) found it "did not reduce the likelihood of PCa in men with baseline HGPIN or ASAP."

Randomized, Placebo-Controlled Trial of Green Tea Catechins for Prostate Cancer Prevention.

As for lycopene, a recent meta-analysis of all the studies done on it found there was no statistically significant benefit associated with consumption of raw tomatoes, cooked tomatoes or lycopene.

Lycopene/Tomato Consumption and the Risk of Prostate Cancer: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis of Prospective Studies

Based on this, one can't simply conclude "it was the selenium." No one can know whether the combinations of any two or all three were harmful. And what are the interaction effects with other supplements? In light of the potential harm, and no proven benefit to any of the ingredients, why would anyone risk it?

- Allen

Allen, You certainly are up on your research. The green tea study you cited was only published ten days ago!

Thanks for the time and effort to detail your case against supplements.

However, the National Cancer Institute's supplements page is still more favorable than unfavorable for green tea, lycopene, and pomegranate, so I will continue with my regimen until there is more definite advice to avoid them.

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/prostatesupplements/Patient/page4

Tall Allen - thank you for the information and your thoughts!

Jim,

The following article may be about you:

Why we hate broccoli

- Allen

"I could not, would not, on a boat.
I will not, will not, with a goat.
I will not eat them in the rain.
I will not eat them on a train.
Not in the dark! Not in a tree!
Not in a car! You let me be!
I do not like them in a box.
I do not like them with a fox.
I will not eat them in a house.
I do not like them with a mouse.
I do not like them here or there.
I do not like them ANYWHERE!"

As much as I love vegetables in general, can't stand broccoli, even any shape, form, or fashion. I find it gross and disgusting. Spinach is perhaps my all time fave, loved it as a kid (back when kids were suppose to hate it).

SPINACH FOREVER!!!

I love spinach,
"I could , would not, on a boat.
I will , will , with a goat.
I will eat them in the rain.
I will eat them on a train.
in the dark! in a tree!
in a car! You let me be!
I do like them in a box.
I do like them with a fox.
I will eat them in a house.
I do like them with a mouse.
I do like them here or there.
I do like them ANYWHERE!"