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Even low dose finasteride may prevent PC

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Posted 5/15/2015 2:02 PM (GMT -5)
You can see them in figure 2a.

Effect of dutasteride in men receiving intermittent androgen ablation therapy: The AVIAS trial
Posted 5/19/2015 7:32 AM (GMT -5)
Allen,

I'm wondering too if the Curcumin had peperine.....

Back to this very important thread a minute. I asked my Duke PC MO about my concern with the 363 DHT. Below was his response that was exactly like yours TA. Did you guys talk?

"As long as your PSA is as low as it is, I do not think you need to suppress the DHT. The normal range for that assay for DHT is 112-966, so you can see that you are lower than average for DHT now. Avodart would indeed raise your testosterone and estrogen".

However, if there are microscopic PC cells out there, DHT is feeding them and the PSA will eventually confess.

Thought I read somewhere that DHT is typically 10% of testosterone...can't find that however. IF that is correct, mine should be 50 - 60 with "T" at 561. So, where does Snuffy get that normal DHT is 30 - 60? So, question is does it matter if DHT is 50 or 363?

[Snuffy - the science] "the androgen receptor binds to DHT and that complex migrates to the nucleus of the prostate cancer cell and binds to the DNA and turns on the genes involved in the growth and spread of cancer. So, in the cancer cell, no matter what is going on outside in the bloodstream it’s the DHT that governs whether the cancer grows or not grows".

Lastly, I do wonder if the guys here on Avodart also take Arimidex.....JNF, Viperguy etc.?

Robert
Posted 5/19/2015 12:03 PM (GMT -5)
Hi Robert,

I can't speak for Snuffy, but you seem to be doing fine without a 5ARi. Your PSA is around .2 post ADT+RT which is ideal, and it's not increasing with your T or DHT levels - why mess with success?

The "science" is, well, incomplete. It's not just DHT that activates the androgen receptor (AR) - any androgen will do that (that's why it's called the androgen receptor). When the AR can't find an androgen to stoke it, it uses other things (even anti-androgens) and/or it translocates to the nucleus where it develops androgens within the cell. Klotz is worried that early DHT deprivation might speed the process along by selecting for cancer cells that are better at the workaround.

Arimidex is not a good idea, imho. Estrogen has a lot of good effects with respect to PC. In fact, estrogen patches are effective in treatment. Estrogen also helps with hot flashes. Of course, the downside is gynecomastia and fat accumulation. You're right that blocking the metabolic pathway through DHT increases T levels, which in turn is metabolized to estrogen. So it seems there's a slippery slope if one is taking a 5ARi - then he has to take Arimidex (or similar drugs) to prevent the extra estrogen, but then T accumulates, so you need even more 5ARi to prevent DHT, etc. Hormones are a tricky business!
Posted 5/19/2015 12:26 PM (GMT -5)
Thanks, Allen. PC is so complicated, as you are well aware. It is really good we have support from guys like you.

Robert
NC
Posted 5/19/2015 2:39 PM (GMT -5)
Robert,

You said:  "Thought I read somewhere that DHT is typically 10% of testosterone...can't find that however. IF that is correct, mine should be 50 - 60 with "T" at 561. So, where does Snuffy get that normal DHT is 30 - 60? So, question is does it matter if DHT is 50 or 363?"

I know Myers uses LabCorp.  Their reference range for normal DHT(Dihydrotestosterone) is 30 - 85 ng/dL.

 

But if you look at the link below, they use pg/ml which the normal range is 250-990.  So your 363 pg/ml would convert to 36.3 ng/dl.

 

http://www.hemingways.org/GIDinfo/hrt_ref.htm

ng/dl - nanograms per deciliter

pg/ml - picograms per milliliter

What lab do you use? 

Thanks,

Jerry

 

Post Edited (Jerry L.) : 5/19/2015 1:47:30 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 5/19/2015 6:19 PM (GMT -5)
Jerry,

I did not know it is reported two different ways. When I have the blood draw locally it is LabCorp. But the MO near Raleigh, NC uses other labs. DHT test was done at Mayo.

Dihydrotestosterone, S 363 pg/mL
Reference: 112-955
MCR Mayo Clinic Laboratories - Rochester Main Campus

My DHT 29 in Dec. 2014 was LabCorp.

Thank you so much for pointing this out!!

Robert
Posted 5/20/2015 11:59 AM (GMT -5)
Allen,

For the sake of argument, let's put aside the whole taking Avodart in the vacation part of IHT.  What about while a IHT guy is not on vacation and is taking hormone therapy.  Should he take Avodart (or something similar)?  Is there possibly harm with this?

And what about the CHT guy?  Should he include Avodart (or something similar) to his hormone therapy or is that not beneficial...and is it potentially harmful in this setting as well?

Thanks,

Jerry

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