Shes no longer interested!

testing123 said...
I mentioned this here before...my wife says where she works, the post menopausal woman all say they are done with sex.

You say this as if it were a universal truth....and I can tell you that it is not. Not at all.

mattamx said...
I am not married and I have never dated a post menopausal woman. This information that post menopausal women frequently are disinterested in sex is completely new to me. Just another facet of my ignorance towards things female! lol

But there may be a positive side to this information for someone like me. I'm single and I have been assuming I would never be in a relationship again because my sexual abilities have been destroyed by PCa treatment. I have always assumed that no woman would enter into a relationship with a guy in that condition. But apparently there is a reasonable chance she won't care.

Matt, you may have a good take on this, assuming you have no desire or ability for sex. But the other angle might be: assuming men can somehow maintain the ability, then maybe there is a good reason why men should go for women 10 or 15 years younger than them? Menopause sometimes comes pretty early: 40s? 50s? 60s guaranteed. Men do not seem to have nearly as much of this limitation pre-60s or especially pre- 50s. At least as far as mental desire goes. As someone has pointed out, this is a problem many men have to deal with PC or not.

But speaking of the PC crowd: pills. Shrinkage, injections, pumps, possible Peyronie's, ache for hours after injection even without a usable response, maybe a zero pleasure or painful orgasm, a trip to the ER for a never ending erection and possible serious damage, and finally implant surgery, all for a wife who has no interest. Well if you had a new girlfriend, maybe, or a wife who had an interest other than just to have pity on her husband, but otherwise who would bother with all of that? Well, obviously some will, but it is certainly something to think about.

Post Edited (BillyBob@388) : 4/3/2016 8:21:41 PM (GMT-6)

my non-scientific, non-statistically significant sampling of one post-menopausal woman married for nearly 37 years to me suggests that if, following PC treatment, I had wound up with full on ED, that the person in the study who that would bother more would have been me, not her.

And that finding, I would suggest, is much more common that we might want to admit.

Cigar,

You talked about treatments to fight ED; pills, shots, implants.

As you are aware, the big O is possible even with ED. I practice every day with success and (probably in vain) hoping the nerves will regenerate. It's not as good as it is with a woody, but its better than nothing. I got a Cialis sample and it did improve things but at $30 a pill who the hell can pay for that everyday? I guess my insurance doesn't consider the ability to have sex to be an important component of one's health. I can only imagine what an implant costs.

One more thing: An implant may be less costly than you think. Some health insurance plans will pay, and medicare too. However, I think implants are overkill unless you have a need for penetrative sex more than four times a week.

That said, I'd love to have one "just because" but I don't think I'll get there unless the injections stop working.

Well, one might say that sex is another topic to add to that short list of things not easily talked about without many different opinions....like religion and politics. Even in my peer-to-peer support group, it's practically a taboo topic. I brought it up one night (pardon the pun), and I didn't get an answer out of any one, but in looking at the faces of they guys sitting accross from me, it was apparent that it is a sore spot for many.
As awkward as it is to talk about, it is every bit as important a topic as religion or politics, so I am happy to see it being well discussed here. All I can do is throw in my experience thus far as it relates to PCa.
As far as the potential SE's when looking at my treatment options, it was my wife who was most unwilling to accept any percentage possibilities of ED. All I kept hearing weas NO...NO...NO when I was going through the options. I married a 5 year my junior, so menopause hasn't caught her yet, but it is around the corner.
I really can't predict how she's going to be coming out the back end of menopause, so it's very possible her concerns of today will be forgotten at any time in the near future.
I did spend quite a bit of time thinking about how I would feel about having ED, and I guess it was a bag of mixed emotions, but really, incontinence would bother me more I think.
Anyway, in summation, it's easy to fantasy gamble with money you don't have, so there is no way to for me to know how I would feel about it unless/until it happens to me. I have made careful decisions in my treatment planning to try and avoid it...purposfully....so here's to hoping it works out for me.

Newton, you are absolutely correct…politics, religion and sex are topics that should never be brought up at a dinner party (I suppose it depends on the dinner party…none that I attend). Of course, here at HW/PC, where essentially every PC treatment option except Active Surveillance directly impacts our sexual function in some way, this one topic is valuable to openly discuss…especially with/for the newbies who may not otherwise fully grasp the impact of treatment decisions. Politics and religion remain off-limits.

But above and beyond any discussions here, I’ve found that open discussion about sex at home is one of the keys to success. Moreover, it’s saddening when I read halbert’s tale about “married sex” from earlier in this thread:

halbert said...

The 3 stages of married sex..
Stage 1: Kitchen Sex: sex anywhere, any time, on the kitchen table.
Stage 2: Married with Children: Behind a locked door, late at night after the kids are asleep, as little noise as possible.
Stage 3: Hall Sex: Pass each other in the hall and say "**** you"

That doesn't sound like a good marriage! When I pass my wife in the hallway at home, we give each other a smile and often a tap on the butt as we pass.

As a card-carrying AARP member (age 56), I’m finding my love life to be near the best ever. (I should add that my RP certainly interrupted things for a while, but I do daily tadalafil which has restored my functionality.) This recent article in Health magazine lists “8 Reasons” why so many others do, too, at post-menopausal ages:

1) No pregnancy worries—40-to-50 is still an anxiety point for many women; once menopausal, that worry is gone. No tampons, pads, birth control pills, etc.

2) Coitus un-interruptus—For most my age, the kids are all gone, and our time is ours. Exception for us is the occasional grandchild sleepover, like we had this weekend (14-month old).

3) You know what you want—This is a real plus over the early days when the energy level was higher, but so was cluelessness. Inhibitions are (or should be) gone, and being comfortable with who you are improves sexual function and enjoyment. You’ve heard the saying: “If I only knew then what I know now…”

4) You may want it more—In many women, desire was quelled for a long time by birth control pills, and may re-surge once eliminated; plus there are other hormone management methods.

5) You’re financially stable—Now that the kids are gone, it’s easier to splurge on dinner dates, romantic getaways, and pricey & alluring lingerie. Throw out your own old holey underway and upgrade.

6) Lubricants—Is dryness an excuse to avoid sex, or an opportunity to experiment with new, more pleasurable experiences, courtesy of the lube aisle at your local drugstore (or sex store).

7) Your career is stable—Sure, there’s still stress which can affect desire, but probably nothing like it was earlier in your career. Many career goals have been met.

8) Partner problems can be fixed—As the doctor in the article says, “One of the worst nightmares for a woman in menopause is to have the freedom to have sex anywhere but to have a partner who can’t perform anywhere.” Well, we at HW/PC know all about that, and Cigar has listed some key options; but the article also points out that the mature woman is more open to also using vibration devices for a satisfying experience and to supplement performance issues…also available at drug stores these days.

www.health.com/health/gallery/0,,20348327,00.html

Personally, my observation is that too many men use the excuse "She's no longer interested!" without looking into the mirror and taking personal accountability for their own responsibilities for the success.

Post Edited (JackH) : 4/4/2016 9:46:39 AM (GMT-6)

halbert said...
my non-scientific, non-statistically significant sampling of one post-menopausal woman married for nearly 37 years to me suggests that if, following PC treatment, I had wound up with full on ED, that the person in the study who that would bother more would have been me, not her.

And that finding, I would suggest, is much more common that we might want to admit.

I think it is very common indeed. And much more common than 10 or 20 years ago when the docs decided that hormone(estrogen) replacement via horse urine as a source was not only not helpful for overall women's health, but possibly quite harmful ( oops ) I remember many women, including my wife, quit cold turkey and went through instant menopause and loss of all sexual desire along with all the other symptoms. I think I also remember there was a big drop in breast cancer rates the very next year.

I suspect the result's of your small study could be extrapolated to lot's of other post men women. It's called post MEN or MEN o(n)pause for a reason.

Post Edited (BillyBob@388) : 4/4/2016 5:13:32 PM (GMT-6)

JackH, the 'three stages of married sex' is a freaking JOKE. A little humor impaired are we?

Prato: I've heard that one before.

Wow Sophie and Bluebird123, where are the women like Y'all? I guess it shows you just never now. In my wife's case, as I wrote previously about the instant menopause when estrogen therapy was deemed harmful and immediately stopped, it was also like a light switch as far as sex. Although, I also blame other problems like thyroid ablation and steadily advancing arthritis, and all the things that can make sex a painful experience, I can't say my wife - while always being willing to take care of my needs- at all missed the sexual/intimate aspects that used to be so important. She had the memory of how much fun it all was, and missed it, but at the same time- like so many men here on HT report, no desire whatsoever. Throw in pain and discomfort from many causes, and actually worse than no desire. Kind of hard to imagine post MEN women who miss and even long for it like I do. But apparently they exist.

PS: Peyronie's and shrinkage. Just a little insult added to injury. Sometimes it is hard for me to imagine why informed people will choose surgery, though obviously they do and have their good reasons for doing so. In fact, I did. I often can't imagine what I must have been thinking, even though I have not yet suffered the PD and probably very little of that other evil.

Cigar56 said...
Billybob,

Like many of us, I have gone through a lot to be able to achieve erections -- and I would do it again. To be fair, a lot of the negatives you point out never happen to a lot of men.

Some of us never are afflicted by Peyronie's or ache for hours after injections. I've never had a painful orgasm or had to rush to the emergency room for an erection that lasted too long.

There are always risks, but I don't want newbies to shy away from addressing their ED issues because of fear. I am currently using Trimix injections and I love it. Once I got used to the medication there was no aching at all, and in more than a year of injecting I haven't had any trips to the ER and no signs of shrinkage or Peyronie's.

Actually, I addressed my ED problems for me. My wife was already postmenopausal and she was satisfied with a slow but steady decline in our activity. But I wanted to be able to perform, even if it meant a lot more solo play. So I started out with the pills and later moved on to injections.

If injections ever fail I am moving up to the implant, even if my significant other is still losing interest. I love her deeply and will never leave, but I don't believe I should stop having sex just because she is no longer interested. Like I said, there is always solo play.

Cigar, you are totally correct. I don't say it in every post on this subject, but I very frequently say that quite a number( I really don't know the %) of men have a pretty good recovery of sexual function and continence after surgery. Although, also to be fair, I do often wonder(but don't know) what % of those lucky men never really needed surgery in the first place, leaving their surgeons free to avoid cutting wide and fully sparing nerves on both sides.

Still, even some of those men come out not so lucky, and even though "Some of us never are afflicted by Peyronie's or ache for hours after injections. I've never had a painful orgasm or had to rush to the emergency room for an erection that lasted too long. ", you must admit that quite a number do have one or all of these issues. And a few (more than a few?) will never know pleasurable sex again, even with all of the extreme and strange hoops we try to jump through. Whether or not you have a wife that wants you to recover, no matter.

Again, I totally agree with "There are always risks, but I don't want newbies to shy away from addressing their ED issues because of fear.". Absolutely, try everything you can to improve your chance of recovery( I did ), and all the more so if you have a wife who still wants it. All I want is for newbies to be sure that surgery is the approach they want and actually need, especially for the non-aggressive Dx. (or for that matter also the guys with aggressive PC that surgery might well fail anyway) They really should be aware that if they are not among the lucky ones, pleasurable sex may become a distant memory and that they have a more than reasonable chance of getting one or even all of those very nasty SEs that I so oft mention, for ever. Then per the OP, add a woman who had little or no interest even when he was fully functional, well, things can become truly challenging. No going back. (though I do suppose if you actually still have a pleasurable orgasm, and maybe are not too shrunken, an implant is a reasonable option, especially if there is an interested woman)

Once again, the naive belief that a "statistical sample of one" is meaningful has been demonstrated to NOT be meaningful, and again there is no one-size-fits-all.


We've seen some of the best tips come to the surface in this thread for a long and successful relationship/marriage:

Compromise — If you find yourself not giving very much, or feeling resentful of how much you give and how little you receive back, you may be in an unequal relationship where one side is taking more than they are giving.

Communication — Relationships live and die not by the sword, but by the amount of discussion. If two people can’t find a way to openly and honestly communicate their needs and feelings to one another, the relationship doesn’t stand much of a chance long-term. Couples must find a way to communicate regularly, openly, and directly.

Choose Your Battles Carefully — Do you really want to start a fight over the toothpaste cap or how clean the shower is? Or would you rather reserve your energy for the discussions over other matters. Too many couples fight and bicker over the dumbest things, especially when put into context of issues of true importance.

Don’t Hide Your Needs — Be realistic first with yourself about whether such things really matter to you or not. If they do, you need to find a way to communicate such needs with your partner, and compromise where possible.

Don’t underestimate the importance of trust and honesty — Different people have different areas of concern, but almost everyone values trust and honesty from their partner above all.

Look in the mirror.