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Posted 4/27/2016 6:12 PM (GMT -5)
Prostate cancer and low dose aspirin...any connection?

I have been on low dose aspirin for several years until
May of last year, when a side effect of radiation (SRT)
led to blood in the urine. That has since been dealt with
and my GP wants me to go back on low dose aspirin.
"Not so fast doc...have to see how my PC is going to be
affected by it." So, looking into this subject I noticed two
recent studies concerning PC and low dose aspirin.....
leading to the following headlines.

"Aspirin Use Does Not Improve Prostate Cancer Mortality" 4/2015

"Better Prostate Cancer Survival With Low-Dose Aspirin?" 4/2016

Not too helpful, so I looked over my own diet/PSA notes and
found the following:

With aspirin: I had both very poor results and excellent results
in stopping PC progression.

Without aspirin: I had three very poor results and three of my
very best results, including one significant PSA reduction.

So, what I'm concluding from all this is that low dose aspirin is a NON FACTOR.
You can slow PC progression with or without it.

Cashless
Posted 4/27/2016 7:48 PM (GMT -5)
Whats your take on humous visa vi Pca.. good bad ich mach nix?? when and if you have time
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Posted 4/28/2016 3:33 AM (GMT -5)
Maybe something to this diet and exercise stuff. My PSA rose from .05 to .07 in three months. I started eating veggies daily, exercised more, and PSA remained at .07 three months later. Well see if it holds for next three months.
Posted 4/28/2016 11:06 AM (GMT -5)
Bo, are you asking about hummus? If so, it's fine.

From my first post on this thread...

5) Lots of raw vegetables, especially broccoli and
broccoli sprouts. Have with hummus containing
olive oil, and add turmeric spice, ground black pepper,
rosemary, and oregano to the hummus.

Eating raw vegetables is not fun. But, with a good
hummus, it's no problem at all.

Howard, keep us posted on your results with D&E.
I can probably help if you run into trouble.

Cashless
Posted 4/28/2016 11:22 AM (GMT -5)
See…see… how much I pay tension.. Ive come full circle on this thread.. Lotsa meat on da bone..pun intended.
Posted 4/28/2016 11:40 AM (GMT -5)

Howard3569 said...
Maybe something to this diet and exercise stuff. My PSA rose from .05 to .07 in three months. I started eating veggies daily, exercised more, and PSA remained at .07 three months later. Well see if it holds for next three months.

Hey Howard,
Have you considered adding some daily or at least frequent ground flax seed(couple or 3 tablespoons) and or a serving of raw broccoli? (some say an enzyme needed to get any sulforaphane- just one of broc's beneficial ingredients- is destroyed by cooking). I mean just for fun and an experiment? The way I figure it, I've got to eat something so why not play around with some of these supposedly helpful foods as long as I like them or at least don't mind them. Other things of interest are kale and spinach and if you don't mind the aroma lot's of onions(Quercetin) and garlic. But especially those 1st 2 I mentioned. Or maybe garlic and onions with broccoli? How about doing a study of one for us? smilewinkgrin
Posted 5/16/2016 1:45 PM (GMT -5)
BillyBob asks ..... "Have you considered adding some daily or at least frequent ground flax seed ..... "

BillyBob, you will be happy to hear that the value of flaxseed is finally settled science:

It’s either "GOOD", as seen from Memorial Sloan Kettering …

“Flaxseed has been investigated for its anticancer potential. It was shown to inhibit the growth and
metastasis of human breast cancer (6) (29), prostate cancer (7) and melanoma (8) in vitro and in
mice. It also reduced radiation therapy-induced lung damage and improved survival (27). In other
studies flaxseed was shown to lower tumor biomarkers in men with prostate cancer (9) (25) and in
patients with breast cancer (10) .....”

OR,

It’s .... "NOT GOOD" .... as seen in a book authored by NIH trained prostate cancer specialist and
survivor, Dr. Charles “Snuffy” Myers: “Flaxseed: Panacea or Poison?”, using real data gleaned
from research done by institutions, such as the Harvard School of Public Health, Memorial Sloane
Kettering, and Duke University.

"Myers uses the results from a 40,000 person ten-year Harvard School of Pubic Health study
that investigated the link between diet and various aspects of health as a jumping off point: the
study shows that a diet rich in the major plant omega 3 fatty acid found in flax (ALA) increased
a man’s risk of developing advanced prostate cancer. Myers further explains how largely
aggrandized and skewed the overall benefits of flaxseed and flaxseed oil have become. He
also delineates the evidence showing that flaxseed oil may increase the rate at which prostate
cancer grows.”

I don't use it ..... Cashless
Posted 5/16/2016 10:56 PM (GMT -5)
Well, good to know it is settled and looks like there are 2 choices: good, or not good. Which one to believe? As a food, I will say it keeps me regular, plus my blood pressure appears to be lower when including it in my diet. But you never know, since there is always another study it seems. A few of the studies in it's favor FWIW:
nutritionfacts.org/questions/flax-seeds-and-prostate-cancer-risk/

Somebody said...
Might flax seeds (ALA) increase prostate cancer risk?
Written by: Michael Greger M.D. on November 8th, 2012
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There are a lot discussions and articles online about the supposed connection between flax seeds (ALA) and prostate cancer – suggesting that more flax consumed = increase chance of prostate cancer. I haven’t found this issue addressed on your website (sorry if I missed it). Can you comment? Thanks!

DSikes / Originally posted below Just the Flax, Ma’am
Answer:

The latest meta-analysis of prospective studies found that, if anything, alpha-linolenic acid (ALA, the omega-3 fat in flax) was protective against prostate cancer. Men consuming more than 1.5 g/day appeared to have significantly lower risk (the amount found in about a tablespoon of ground flax seeds).

One of the reasons there’s been so much conflicting data is that ALA is found in great foods (dark green leafies) and less than great foods (meat), and so ALA intake is not necessarily a marker of healthy eating. What you want is a randomized controlled study of men with prostate cancer. Give half of them flax and see what happens. And that was done! (full text here)

Researchers at the University of Texas Anderson Cancer Center took a bunch of men with prostate cancer about a month before they were to go into surgery. Half were put on a few tablespoons of ground flax a day and after surgery their cancerous prostates were examined. The proliferation rates of the cancer in the flax-eaters were only half that of the controls, confirming the test-tube studies done on prostate cancer cells suggesting that flax can indeed slow prostate tumor growth.

This improvement was after only 30 days of flax. ( Also see: cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/17/12/3577.full.pdf+html )


Test tube only: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11911282

Somebody said...
Abstract

Send to:
Anticancer Res. 2001 Nov-Dec;21(6A):3995-9.
Effect of mammalian lignans on the growth of prostate cancer cell lines.
Lin X1, Switzer BR, Demark-Wahnefried W.
Author information
Abstract
BACKGROUND:

Mammalian lignans, enterolactone (EL) and enterodiol (ED), have been shown to inhibit breast and colon carcinoma. To date, there have been no reports of the effect of lignans on prostatic carcinoma. We investigated the effects of ED and EL on three human prostate cancer cell lines (PC-3, DU-145 and LNCaP).
MATERIALS AND METHODS:

Cells were treated with either 0.1% (v/v) DMSO (vehicle) or 10-100 microM of EL, ED or genistein (positive control) for 72 hours. Cell viability was measured by the propidium iodide nuclei staining fluorometric assay with each assay performed in triplicate.
RESULTS:

At 10-100 microM, EL significantly inhibited the growth of all cell lines, whereas ED only inhibited PC-3 and LNCaP cells. While EL was a more potent growth inhibitor than ED, both were less potent than genistein. The dose for 50% growth inhibition of LNCaP cells (IC50) by EL was 57 microM, whereas IC50 was 100 microM for ED, (the observed IC50 for genistein was 25 microM).
CONCLUSION:

ED and EL suppress the growth of prostate cancer cells, and may do so via hormonally-dependent and independent mechanisms.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15134976

Somebody said...
Urology. 2004 May;63(5):900-4.
Pilot study to explore effects of low-fat, flaxseed-supplemented diet on proliferation of benign prostatic epithelium and prostate-specific antigen.
Demark-Wahnefried W1, Robertson CN, Walther PJ, Polascik TJ, Paulson DF, Vollmer RT.
Author information

1Division of Urologic Surgery, Duke University Medical Center, Durham, North Carolina 27710, USA.

Abstract
OBJECTIVES:

Dietary factors may influence the prostate and have an impact on prostatic growth and disease. A small number of studies have suggested that flaxseed-supplemented, fat-restricted diets may thwart prostate cancer growth in both animals and humans. Unknown, however, is the potential effect of such a diet on benign prostatic epithelium.
METHODS:

We undertook a pilot study to explore whether a flaxseed-supplemented, fat-restricted diet affects the proliferation rates in benign epithelium. We also explored the effects on circulating levels of prostate-specific antigen (PSA), total testosterone, and cholesterol. Fifteen men who were scheduled to undergo repeat prostate biopsy were instructed to follow a low-fat (less than 20% kcal), flaxseed-supplemented (30 g/day) diet and were provided with a supply of flaxseed to last throughout the 6-month intervention period. The PSA, total testosterone, and cholesterol levels were determined at baseline and at 6 months of follow-up. Reports from the original and repeat biopsies were compared, and proliferation (MIB-1) rates were quantified in the benign prostatic epithelium.
RESULTS:

Statistically significant decreases in PSA (8.47 +/- 3.82 to 5.72 +/- 3.16 ng/mL; P = 0.0002) and cholesterol (241.1 +/- 30.8 to 213.3 +/- 51.2 mg/dL; P = 0.012) were observed. No statistically significant change was seen in total testosterone (434.5 +/- 143.6 to 428.3 +/- 92.5 ng/dL). Although 6-month repeat biopsies were not performed in 2 cases because of PSA normalization, of the 13 men who underwent repeat biopsy, the proliferation rates in the benign epithelium decreased significantly from 0.022 +/- 0.027 at baseline to 0.007 +/- 0.014 at 6 months of follow-up (P = 0.0168).
CONCLUSIONS:

These pilot data suggest that a flaxseed-supplemented, fat-restricted diet may affect the biology of the prostate and associated biomarkers. A randomized controlled trial is needed to determine whether flaxseed supplementation, a low-fat diet, or a combination of the two regimens may be of use in controlling overall prostatic growth.

However, going by your heads up, I will certainly keep even a closer eye on my PSA!
Posted 6/19/2016 9:13 AM (GMT -5)
This is an update to the Diet described earlier here.

On a 4/2/2016 entry on this thread, I mentioned that
"black fungus" may have helped lower my PSA. I started
with a PSA of 0.307 on 2/10/16, and added black fungus
(about 5) each day. On 3/30/16 my PSA was 0.258. I
then doubled the amount to about 10/day and on 5/24/16
measured my PSA. This time it was much higher, a total
surprise, at 0.336. So, what's going on here?

The answer could be that some black fungus is helpful,
but too much is not. Or, black fungus is making the PSA
less stable, and the readings are no longer useful for diet
experimentation.

I stopped taking them altogether, and measured my PSA on
6/14/2016. The PSA was 0.304; very close to the 0.307
that I started with, before the black fungus experiment.

I need reliable PSA readings to continue these experiments,
so I am no longer including black fungus in my diet. They
don't seem to hurt, since my PSA is unchanged over a
4 month period, and I may revisit this later.

Cashless
Posted 8/18/2016 6:42 PM (GMT -5)
Another update with a PSA reading for mid-August.

The diet described at the beginning of this thread is mostly
unchanged for the last 6 months. This will be my "baseline
diet" and all future changes are expected to be minor.

Remember, I had surgery (Gleason 3+3) in Jan 2007,
followed by SRT in Jan/Feb 2011, and then a rising PSA
in Mar 2013. At that time I experimented with Diet and Exercise.

My PSA doubling time (PSADT) was about 7 months after surgery.
Over the last 6 months my PSADT has been 12 years. I think it's
time to conclude that PSA growth can be slowed through diet and exercise.
This, is spite of two of my three doctors claiming that I can't claim
anything without a well designed, controlled study. They're too late.
I just said it.

Anyways, I just want all to know what can be done if you set your
mind to it. I have no data on how this would work for higher Gleason scores.
I suspect . . . not as well.

Also, this does NOT mean that it should be used instead of other treatment
options. However, I believe that for some cases, you can integrate this into
your treatment program. For my Gleason 6 case, I plan on delaying ADT for
a very long time.

Cashless . . . not constrained by any medical training.
Posted 8/18/2016 9:42 PM (GMT -5)
Thanks for the update cashless. I have been following your experiment with diet with interest. I am happy to read that you have been successful in slowing your PSA growth.

My husband's MO at MSKCC says that although he cannot back it up with studies, he thinks that diet and exercise have a significant effect on cancer progression.

Post Edited (bluebird123) : 8/18/2016 8:45:00 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 8/18/2016 9:42 PM (GMT -5)
Here's the deal: ultimately any discussions of diet/supplements and specific health effects will wind up in statements of opinion and anecdote. Scientifically verifiable true data is virtually impossible to generate, for many reasons. Maybe it helps, maybe it doesn't. Can't be proven either way. And, I'm ultimately a fatalist: It's more likely that the dietary choices my parents made for me in my childhood and youth have more to do with my current health and physical condition than any changes I make in today would have.

Moderation in all things is my watchword.
Posted 8/18/2016 10:44 PM (GMT -5)
Yeah, it's the old "uncontrolled experiment" thing. But hell, even if it doesn't really work or the effects are scientifically irrelevant, if you even think it works and you feel better what' s the harm? A friend of my recently when gluten free he says he has less joint pain and feels more energetic..is he gluten sensitive, my guess is no but he helps with shearing and haying and seems more energetic so what do I care if the effect is scientifically sound..it's seems real for whatever reason.
Posted 8/19/2016 6:40 AM (GMT -5)
Thank you cashlessclay and others who have contributed to this thread. My ORP was Dec '14 - Gleason 7 & EPE+. PSA .01 or .02 for a year, then .03, .06 and headed for HT + SRT. I took up the cashless-diet and since has been .04, .03 and <.014. If I'd had that response to SRT, my RO would be pleased - I just (for six months and counting) delayed the HT & SRT, still got the result. Diet is so frequently discounted - even in this thread. Exercise is just a part of the day here with garden, community, grandson, active life, dancing - so I have that too (resting pulse 50).

Other benefits - lowest BP ever, best lipids ever, very low inflammatory markers. GP is thrilled with numbers.

so again - thank you cashlessclay.
Wilderness
Posted 8/20/2016 5:52 AM (GMT -5)
Just because there is no verifiable, "provable" scientific data possible, doesn't mean diet isn't terribly important. My ultimate take is that we have to be smart about it. It seems intuitive that fresh anything is better than highly processed anything, that sweets and treats are just that, that if sugars are the dominant (first or second on the list) of ingredients whatever it is might not be real good for you. And so on.

On the other hand, evolutionarily we are omnivores, our bodies can process just about anything. I also note that humans are primates, and we're actually built to be on our feet and moving--not sitting in padded chairs for hours on end.

As far as dairy products are concerned, consider this: calves are meant to be raised on cow's milk, and humans are meant to be raised on human milk. I've been on a limited dairy diet my entire life. I have a relatively unusual allergy, to butterfat. I can tolerate relatively small quantities of things like high fat ice cream, butter, or cheeses (equivalent to an ounce or two per day), but I cannot digest them. If I was to eat a pint container of Haagen-Dazs I would be extremely uncomfortable (abdominal cramping) within an hour or so.

Even with that, I still developed PC.
Posted 1/17/2017 3:02 PM (GMT -5)
Halbert says .... "Just because there is no verifiable, "provable" scientific data possible,
doesn't mean diet isn't terribly important."


I agree. I'm using a working hypothesis that "insulin spikes" and "arachidonic acid"
should be reduced and that "turmeric spice" and "exercise" should be increased. I can't
prove any of it, but my most recent diet (vegan plus seafood) has increased my
PSA doubling time from 6 months (before any diet changes), to about 5 years currently.

Cashless
Posted 1/17/2017 7:43 PM (GMT -5)
You da man...cashless...we all know dat...don't be stoppen...Hellzapoppen....mo cow bell...fo real...no time fo jealous...gots to be zealous...
Posted 1/17/2017 10:39 PM (GMT -5)

Bololidat said...
You da man...cashless...we all know dat...don't be stoppen...Hellzapoppen....mo cow bell...fo real...no time fo jealous...gots to be zealous...

Mo cow bell, those are well loved words just down the road at MS State, if you now what I mean. If you don't:
/www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj5PBa_5h5E

( sorry, OT. )
Posted 1/27/2017 12:33 PM (GMT -5)
Sugar and Cancer . . .

When experimenting with the impact of diet on PSA doubling time,
it was clear that I had to get rid of sugar (as in coffee, fruit drinks . .)
to improve PSADT. My PSADT without diet and exercise was about 7
months. With a good D & E program, I'm measuring PSADT in "years".

But I had no idea how sensitive PSADT was to anything that could provoke
an "insulin spike".

I took an excellent diet and decided to improve it with a "super drink".
Included were vegetables that were too hard to eat (beet greens etc),
put them in a blender, and had a 4 oz glass to start the day. It was god
awful. So I added some fruit (grapes, kiwi, pineapple . .) to the mix
to make it drinkable. about 2/3 veg and 1/3 fruit. Three months latter,
the PSADT totally crashed from "years" to my pre-diet value of 7 months.
I removed the drink, took out all fruit except berries from my diet, and
PSADT returned to "years".

I believe the issue is a "spike" in insulin. Even soaking "steel cut" oatmeal
overnight ruined a good diet. Before soaking, "years", when soaking "months",
stopped soaking . . "years". The first meal of the day is very important.

There are several studies that support this "insulin" spike hypothesis.


erc.endocrinology-journals.org/content/18/4/R125.full

www.endocrineconnections.com/content/3/1/24.full

molecular-cancer.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1476-4598-12-72

/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5039983/

Cashless
Posted 1/28/2017 2:33 PM (GMT -5)

Halbert said...
As far as dairy products are concerned, consider this: calves are meant to be raised on cow's milk, and humans are meant to be raised on human milk. I've been on a limited dairy diet my entire life. I have a relatively unusual allergy, to butterfat. I can tolerate relatively small quantities of things like high fat ice cream, butter, or cheeses (equivalent to an ounce or two per day), but I cannot digest them. If I was to eat a pint container of Haagen-Dazs I would be extremely uncomfortable (abdominal cramping) within an hour or so.

Even with that, I still developed PC.


I'm kind of in the same boat. Several years before I was dx I did the lifestyle change, lost 50 lbs, BMI now at 20, off all meds and blood numbers good. I may have had PC prior the weight loss but my PSA numbers did not indicate it at the time.

So I got PC, or it progressed rapidly, even though I was and still am following a Mediterranean, low carb (not atkins or anything) diet and daily exercise.

I do agree following a healthy diet/exercise is important and you should do what you can and what works for you but I'm a skeptic because it didn't work for me. Now that I'm on Lupron really good IPA's are now back in my diet along with additional exercise to account for the IPA calories so I avoid becoming the fat-tub-of-Lupron-goo.
Posted 1/28/2017 5:28 PM (GMT -5)
I've come full circle. I've decided that it's very important to eat sensibly, try and stay away from stuff like fried foods, limit added sugar, simple carbs, etc. but at the same time none of this stuff is scientifically proven. Most of it is either anecdotal, or small scale studies. And life is way too short.

So I eat sensibly, certainly more so than I used to, keep my weight under control, and enjoy an occasional treat. Quality of life is important, so is good healthy diet, they have to be balanced, so one doesn't take away from the other.
Posted 1/28/2017 6:20 PM (GMT -5)
Prato, I think you have invaded my brain!

Your philosphy towards food matches mine exactly. Can't be stupid about eating bad things - like sugar and fat - but at the same time, what is life without something of what you fancy.

My other adjustment of late is to reduce the quantity of what I eat. Previously I always finished whatever was on the plate, even though I didn't really need it. The rationale was to not "waste" food, but my wife has re-educated me. She reminds me that "my stomach is not a garbage bin" and it is better to put un-needed food in the bin rather than in my stomach. Of course it is easier if you just put less on the plate to start with, but not always possible when eating out.

Chas
Posted 1/28/2017 7:06 PM (GMT -5)
Yep.. what I did that was big was drop soda..I used to drink 2-3 cans a day..now about 2-3 cans a year. I eat more leafy greens..although they give me heartburn...but not bad. I'm a baker , though, so I still struggle with refined grains. Cutting down on that two. Also started raising my own chickens here on the farm.
Posted 1/28/2017 7:09 PM (GMT -5)
But my PSA jumped to in 6 months to 11.2 from 8.9 which it had been for 18 months. ..so it hasn't helped that...bye bye AS smile
Posted 1/29/2017 9:19 AM (GMT -5)
IMHO, we should - each of us - try our very best to be as healthy as we can on an ongoing basis.

I do my very best to eat right, get lots of serious aerobic exercise, learning and mental exercise, plenty of rest (8 out of 24 hours horizontal) - quality time with family and friends, mindful meditation...and more every single day. Engage with the day and be happy. smile

There is no single "magic bullet" that will certainly kill your cancer and leave you unscathed. There is no single reason why you got prostate cancer, no wrong food, wrong thoughts, wrong beliefs. It just happened to you and you have that knowledge. Knowledge is power. Your task then, is to make the very best decisions that you can given the knowledge that you have. The results will make themselves known in time.
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