Bounces after primary radiation therapy

Thanks for sharing Allen.

Allen, I guess I have asked about this before but I am trying to find any encouraging news. The question is: the no vex you are talking about, is it for PRIMARY radiation or also SRT radiation after RP?
Thanks

As the title says, "primary radiation therapy."

My Doc told me this same thing. And I am sure it can cause some anxiety. Thanks, Denis

bouncy bouncy. Was the report written by Tigger?

hrpufnstuf,

Since you understand that there is no logical cause for your anxiety, I think you would be much happier if you looked at its psychological causes. i recommend you look into psychotherapy and the practice of Mindfulness. You don't have to live with anxiety, or suffer from its effects.

Hrpufnstuf,

I am like you as well, but it is not logical. In my 64 years of worry and anxiety, the end game has usually been less traumatic than the worry that I created. What TA is saying is.....why add stress to your mind and body in matters outside of your control. I come from a long line of worriers and fretters. I understand. However, I am doing what I can to better manage it to reduce my stress. When i worry, my family worries with me. When I am smiling, they smile as well.
Check out my bounces.

Paul

hrpufnstuf...don't pick pepper out of fly poop...you are getting good advice here and treating it like a debate to be won imo...just my opinion...yhe goal of us all here who try to help with anxiety/stress levels...even our own...I read my own posts...you should too ie your own...it helps to see different perspective to reflect off your self as well as others...is not that why we are all here...I mean here...alive..." to be or not to be...that IS the question " is it not... hopenfrstuff-ferya...fo real...

Hello All, are 2 or 3 consecutive bounces no matter how small a jump still considered a recurrance ?

Been watching this discussion, since it was much on my mind over the past year.

TA's reminder about the recurrence criterion being a rise of at least 2 points about the post-radiation nadir (Phoenix criterion) made me think about this chart I made last year. (I posted this, but can't seem to find that thread.) Note that the blue line is hypothetical, that's the speculative trend it might have been without ADT, with a speculative bounce thrown in. It's just to illustrate the idea.

PSA vs. Time, post radiation and ADT recovery pattern

Anyway, I had a really fast PSA rise once my 3 years of ADT wore off and testosterone recovered. While alarming, it seems to have followed a theory I heard where ADT was suppressing the "actual" post-radiation PSA number. The rapid rise was really just getting up to the trend line it would otherwise have had after IGRT. Even 4 years later, the PSA could still "actually" be varying, and even now we're still seeing a slow decline to its eventual real post-treatment value.

The point is, by earlier criteria (3 consecutive rises without a threshold requirement), and according to one oncologist I immediately fired, I would have embarked on a series of scans and maybe even treatments unnecessarily. It took a year of patience to see the result, and even now it still seems to be slowly declining.

That graphic is a somewhat crude attempt to explain what we saw. It may give some comfort to those seeing their PSA varying after radiation (and ADT). Personally, I think the team that developed the so-called "Phoenix" criteria for recurrence were some pretty smart folks knew what they were doing.

PCa is a real mind game....

Anxiety and stress come from a deep place within oneself.

Thoughtful evaluation of a situation is healthy and good. Being anxious and stressed is not.

Some are prone to anxiety and others are not. Anxiety about whether it is going to rain today or whether or not the PCa is returning is coming from a deeper place. There are ways to change that, as TA has said. Mindfulness, Breath meditation and Psychotherapy are three.

Be well

Roger

Redwing-

I think you are raising a good point for those who have adjuvant hormone therapy. PSA may rise even higher than nadir+2 as the ADT wears off and natural production of T resumes. I would also add that "biochemical recurrence" is not the same as "clinical recurrence." I've talked to men whose PSA jumped by over 2 points. In every case, the RO's wise advice was to wait and see what pattern developed. In every case, the PSA subsided.