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Posted 10/16/2009 10:39 PM (GMT -5)
My friend asked his surgeon, "How did you get experience?" His reply was after he was out of training and on his own with the DaVinci, he only operated on men at least 70 years old. After 500 he started on others and now is near 2000. He felt the older men could have done nothing and probably would have died of other causes. But this way he got training and they got the benefit of the cancer being gone.
Posted 10/16/2009 10:41 PM (GMT -5)
Nice... I thought I was adding this to another post.... One that was discussing an article about Robotic Surgery........

Posted 10/16/2009 10:57 PM (GMT -5)
Did he tell your why the doctor would admit to this approach? Certainly not a good thing for a doctor to say.

Tony
Posted 10/17/2009 10:27 AM (GMT -5)
Doesn't sound very ethical to operate on men over 70. I wouldn't trust this doctor to treat me as he puts his own interests ahead of his patient's.
JohnT
Posted 10/17/2009 4:37 PM (GMT -5)
Sounds really cold and without any ethics. If I were thsi doctor, I don't think I would be telling people about that. He had no right to use these elderly men as training fodder.

David in SC
Posted 10/17/2009 4:58 PM (GMT -5)
You fellows make it seem like this doc hoodwinked and dragged into his surgeries victims who couldn't defend or decide for themselves. I am sure these guys was aware they were getting robotic surgery from a younger doctor and I am sure they had ample opportunity to do DD about it. I really don't think there was any unethical behavior. Rather, I think it says a lot as to the doc deciding he would limit his initial surgeries to older men, rather than men who were much younger and had a lot more to risk in terms of ed and continence issues in failures.
Posted 10/17/2009 5:20 PM (GMT -5)
I rarely would disagree with you, James, on any issue here, but I strongly and respectfully disagree with you on this one.

David in SC

Still a form of "playing God" in my mind set.
Posted 10/17/2009 6:34 PM (GMT -5)
David, disagreement noted.... smilewinkgrin tongue turn shocked devil cool Seriously, those gold standard surgeon do have to get their experience somewhere to reach the 1000 and 2000 levels. I am sure they don't get there by operating on cadavers and pig carcasses. turn
Posted 10/17/2009 6:49 PM (GMT -5)
Of course James, they have to get their experience patient by patient. But segregating one's learning curve to the elderly, to me, and perhaps just me, is one step away from say, let's experiment our surgical skills on the homeless and prisoners, because they have nothing to lose.

I just view each life in the world of equal value and worth.

David in SC
Posted 10/17/2009 7:36 PM (GMT -5)
James,
Most doctors would agree that surgery would not be the first option for anyone older than 70, especially when radiaton is available. Most surgeons refer their older patients to radiologsts. Surgery is very hard on older patients and prone to serious complications.
JT
Posted 10/17/2009 7:46 PM (GMT -5)
It's simple math. If a doc does 1000 and we think fewer than 200 is "beginner" then 20% of all his surgeries are in the "beginner" range. Everyone wants to be patient 500-700 but that's not possible either.
Personally until they implant an prostatectodometer onto the surgeons' foreheads I don't trust the numbers one bit.
I will trust the OR nurse who says Dr Smith does 2 per day and does surgery on Tuesdays. He's been at the hospital for 2 years. That's my number.
Jeff
Posted 10/17/2009 8:48 PM (GMT -5)
Oh boy! I'm glad I'm not 70 and he is not my doctor.
Posted 10/18/2009 9:22 AM (GMT -5)
I am 70 and was told that I was on the "border". "Border" my a**! As a surgeon, there was no option for me to consider. I wanted that baby outta there ASAP. Two urologists (one the robot guy) asked me more than once. At 70, I cannot say the operation was a snap. It gave me about 20 minutes of grief, but I would do it again in a New York minute!
Posted 10/18/2009 9:28 AM (GMT -5)
Curious, just 20 minutes of grief? At what point did you feel that small amount of grief? Trying to figure that out.
Posted 10/19/2009 1:21 AM (GMT -5)
20 minutes is a figure of speech meaning that I had no real pain, the bowel kicked off right away, the catheter was not a bother, and after it came out, there was no incontinence. If I took a finger and pushed on a wound site, it was a little sore. That said, I did have a b*tch of a time with a stretch injury to the nerves to my right leg. It is about gone now.
Posted 10/19/2009 7:26 AM (GMT -5)
Got you know, lol, I took it in a literal sense. Otherwise, you virtually had zero problems with the whole thing, which I find amazing. Glad it worked that way for you.
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