Pomegranate juice

You are starting to sound way too much like an info commercial, its starting to sound scary to me. You shouldn't promise anything, as that is exactly what the snake oil peddlers do.

david

Sorry David if you are scared by being told what others have experienced for themselves.  I guess that I should not PROMISE, but then I am not flogging the stuff..  It is interesting that most people come here to actually HEAR what others have found and then to decide if it sounds convincing enough to give it a try

If you are so totally negative to the suggestion that some things DO work, then just don't touch the stuff.  ( and I do know that many have NOT worked conclusively in the past )

To Piano - I doubt that there would be ANY figures for those with CANCER, taking a supplement that has been Lowering their PSA or PSADT, and then a subsequent negative effect when the stop the treatment.  ... .. . I would not be the one who would be stoping it just to make a few cynics satisfied that I am now worse off..

and - Piano - I think that there are some very expensive pharmaceuticals that have Arthritis as a side effect..    You could take them for a time and develop the symptoms and then see if it gets better.  . with OPC..

Sorry guys - I give this stuff to my 96yo mother and to my kids, as an immune-System booster..  I know what it MIGHT do for them, but , YES, we are all different and surprise, surprise, surprise (Go Gomer) , not all cancer treatments work on everyone..

.

.http://curezone.com/forums/am.asp?i=1302875

.http://www.sutherlandiaopc.com/testimonials.htm

.http://enjoylivinglonger.com/Prostate_Cancer.html

.http://www.tbyil.com/Oleander_Sutherlandia_OPC_Testimonials.htm

.http://www.patienthealthyself.info/prostatecancer2.html

.http://www.real-dream-catchers.com/pycnogenol/pycnogenol_and_cancer.htm

One always has to sift the chaff from the grain, but there is information of HOPE out there.

.

.

Purgatory said...
....... you sound completely OCD about something that isn't a 100% proven medical fact. ...........

Come on now, fess up -  - Your my bride , aren't you  --  pretending to be Purgatory..  You just wait   ..

                    Not gona let you play with the pump tonight.

.

 

Post Edited (BuiDoi) : 12/17/2010 9:44:28 PM (GMT-7)

Yes - The PSA DID drop to 4.7, from 5.2..
I was Soooooo disappointed that I could not persist with the self cure..
In reality -- had I known what I now know, I would have stood up to the family bullies and hung in there.
(although nightime castration was still a VERY strong possibility - had I refused the wicked cut)

Don't for a second think that the 0.01 has ANYTHING to do with OPC.. that is just a good RP surgery/result..
I will not put myself forward as any kind of proof for OPC, or Resveratrol or any products similar (like Pomegranate Extract). except for the arthritis and cholesterol etc.
and - don't think that I don't know that a G7 is not a significant cancer.
It's all such a gamble - with the UNKNOWN. That is the disease called CANCER.

When scared - you do what you are told !
.
.

Well, now,,,that's a real thread killer, eh-what?

Put me down as an OPC sceptic too.

BuiDoi's numbers don't prove anything as far as PCa is concerned. However a PSA drop from 5.2 to 4.7 when one would normally expect a rise is suggestive.

And Willie B's post on the first page of this thread indicates that PJ (and other supplements) did nothing for him.

As with so many things, what works for one does not work for another. And the only way (currently) to know if will work for me is to try it.

For those on the urine treatment, can you quote before and after PSA numbers? Also how does the taste compare with PJ? Curious minds need to know this stuff

BillyMac
Well,,,,,shut my mouth and call me a fool!

We humans are interesting creatures.. 

2000 years ago some goose said

"Unless I can place my hand in the wound, I will not believe...."    

He obviously did not have the Internet !

I wonder how many have gone to the grave, never having taken a leap of faith !

If something has repeated reports of doing good, and NO reports of doing bad, then should it be wiped aside until a 100% guarantee is given. 

How strange it is that not ONE Pharma-Company will give ANY guarantee on what their products will do, and people TRUST them???      .

Each to his own - I guess !  

Someone once said  "You don't need a bent neck to be a goose"  --  Well my neck must be bent !    .

.

BuiDoi said...
We humans are interesting creatures..

I wonder how many have gone to the grave, never having taken a leap of faith !


.

I would suggest that a far greater number have gone to their graves on taking leaps of faith rather than rational analysis.

BillyMac said...
Do you doubt the evidence Casey?





It's not that I "doubt the evidence"...I couldn't find any "evidence." The guidance I've given people here repeatedly is to look for credible sources of information. Educate yourself...it's really not that hard, but you gotta think. Where is the mountain of evidence accumulating? I didn't see any mountains of evidence, or any credible medical evidence, on "urine therapy" accumulating, and so your recommendation is not found to be credible either (BillyMac wrote: "Personally I believe that drinking a glass of your own urine first thing in the morning does wonders for your health", yet you don't follow this yourself).



I read your "articles" however. In fact, I saw several places the mention of "Dr. Mezel of the Edgewater Hospital of Chicago." My interest really piqued then, because, you see, the Edgewater Hospital in Chicago was completely shut down in the 1990s because of Medicare fraud...that's right, the entire hospital was shut down! So, I searched for the "Dr. Morris Mezel" who was repeatedly quoted on urine therapy to find out more about him and his "medical" background. I also used a variety of other search terms, including "Morris Mezel M.D." and "Morris Mezel". The only information one could find about him were quotes attributed to "Dr Mezel of the Edgewater Hospital of Chicago" in the 2000's about urine, and no other medical history of him or publications. Also, nothing at all from him on pubmed. Very odd, indeed...



We recently had some discussion here at HW in another thread about some "articles" being not "legit"; maybe you should re-visit this link: https://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=35&m=1968387



www.pubmed.gov is an online index of published medical studies. It's a useful tool for seeing where the preponderance of evidence exists in emerging areas of medicine. I used several key word searches: "drink urine", "urine therapy", and "urea acid", and I did not find anything of consistency or value. There was an article which talked about how one's pee can help kill athelete's foot, but I had already learned that from the movie "Good Morning Vietnam" (Robin Williams, hilarious) in the 1980's.









I recommend the use of pubmed to further one's education in prostate cancer. You should try pubmed with the combination of "pomegranate" and "prostate" (trying to pull the discussion back to the topic of this thread). Dozens of publications come up. In fact, here's the abstract from one published just a couple months ago:




<blockquote dir="ltr" style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<h3 class=abstract_label>Nutrition, dietary supplements and prostate cancer -- Abstract</h3>

Prostate cancer is becoming the most common cancer in men. In parallel, role of diet as contributing or protector factor of prostate cancer is supported by experimental studies, clinical observations and intervention studies. Among the prostate cancer risk factor, role of energy intake, especially saturated fat, has been demonstrated. Similarly, omega-3, lycopene, pomegranate juice and vitamin D protective role have been shown. Informed and educated population is necessary to limit energy intake and promote consumption of foods potentially protective.</blockquote>



So the doctors in this case conclude that it takes an "informed and educated population" to limit saturated fats (energy intake) and to increase intake of the foods shown to be protective for prostate cancer through experimental studies, clinical observations and intervention studies. The protective foods/supplements for prostate cancer which were called out here were omega-3, lycopene, pomegranate juice and vitamin D. These same nutritional recommendations show up repeatedly in a prepondenance of studies conducted by reputable medical institutions led by experts in prostate cancer.


post edited, rules violation, sorry Casey, a little over the top there

Post Edited By Moderator (James C.) : 12/19/2010 7:36:34 AM (GMT-7)

Casey59 said...
BillyMac said...
Do you doubt the evidence Casey?





It's not that I "doubt the evidence"...I couldn't find any "evidence." The guidance I've given people here repeatedly is to look for credible sources of information. Educate yourself...it's really not that hard, but you gotta think. Where is the mountain of evidence accumulating? I didn't see any mountains of evidence, or any credible medical evidence, on "urine therapy" accumulating, and so your recommendation is not found to be credible either (BillyMac wrote: "Personally I believe that drinking a glass of your own urine first thing in the morning does wonders for your health", yet you don't follow this yourself).



I read your "articles" however. In fact, I saw several places the mention of "Dr. Mezel of the Edgewater Hospital of Chicago." My interest really piqued then, because, you see, the Edgewater Hospital in Chicago was completely shut down in the 1990s because of Medicare fraud...that's right, the entire hospital was shut down! So, I searched for the "Dr. Morris Mezel" who was repeatedly quoted on urine therapy to find out more about him and his "medical" background. I also used a variety of other search terms, including "Morris Mezel M.D." and "Morris Mezel". The only information one could find about him were quotes attributed to "Dr Mezel of the Edgewater Hospital of Chicago" in the 2000's about urine, and no other medical history of him or publications. Also, nothing at all from him on pubmed. Very odd, indeed...



We recently had some discussion here at HW in another thread about some "articles" being not "legit"; maybe you should re-visit this link: https://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=35&m=1968387



www.pubmed.gov is an online index of published medical studies. It's a useful tool for seeing where the preponderance of evidence exists in emerging areas of medicine. I used several key word searches: "drink urine", "urine therapy", and "urea acid", and I did not find anything of consistency or value. There was an article which talked about how one's pee can help kill athelete's foot, but I had already learned that from the movie "Good Morning Vietnam" (Robin Williams, hilarious) in the 1980's.









I recommend the use of pubmed to further one's education in prostate cancer. You should try pubmed with the combination of "pomegranate" and "prostate" (trying to pull the discussion back to the topic of this thread). Dozens of publications come up. In fact, here's the abstract from one published just a couple months ago:




<blockquote dir="ltr" style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<h3 class=abstract_label>Nutrition, dietary supplements and prostate cancer -- Abstract</h3>

Prostate cancer is becoming the most common cancer in men. In parallel, role of diet as contributing or protector factor of prostate cancer is supported by experimental studies, clinical observations and intervention studies. Among the prostate cancer risk factor, role of energy intake, especially saturated fat, has been demonstrated. Similarly, omega-3, lycopene, pomegranate juice and vitamin D protective role have been shown. Informed and educated population is necessary to limit energy intake and promote consumption of foods potentially protective.</blockquote>



So the doctors in this case conclude that it takes an "informed and educated population" to limit saturated fats (energy intake) and to increase intake of the foods shown to be protective for prostate cancer through experimental studies, clinical observations and intervention studies. The protective foods/supplements for prostate cancer which were called out here were omega-3, lycopene, pomegranate juice and vitamin D. These same nutritional recommendations show up repeatedly in a prepondenance of studies conducted by reputable medical institutions led by experts in prostate cancer.

Gee,
Incidentally you may want also to investigate the word "humour". Special note should be taken of the book I mentioned ........ I'll mention it again --- "The yellow River" by I.P. Daly. Get it?? Perhaps I was being a little obscure? Have you heard the expression "tongue in cheek"? I'll wager that Pubmed has numerous studies that point out the benefit of humour and laughter on physiological as well as psychological health . Perhaps widening your horizons there may help you relax.
Bill

Post edited, rules violation. Sorry Bill, a little over the top there. Also edited an equal rules violation in the quoted text from Casey59

Post Edited By Moderator (James C.) : 12/19/2010 7:34:47 AM (GMT-7)

Hello, everyone. I'm new here. The pomegranate thread caught my eye. I too heard about the  potential of pomegranate juice not long after I was diagnosed in '08. It sounded silly,  but what could it hurt? I actually like the taste of it. The funny thing is that I coupled my morning regime with essiac tea. Now that is a taste of a different kind. For a year and a half I drank that horrible brew and chased it with cold pomegranate juice. I guess the joke was on me because during that same time, my PSA rose by nearly 2 full points.

I guess it could have been worse..at least I didn't drink urine. Not long after my brachytherapy (October 2010) I read about a guy who claimed to have cured himself with cayenne pepper. Not long after that, I read about a guy who claims that all cancers are a fungus, and can be cured with bicarbonate of soda. The brachy wasn't that bad, but baking soda would have been much cheaper.