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Posted 7/29/2011 6:22 PM (GMT -5)

American Cancer Society:

"Local stage means that there is no sign that the cancer has spread outside of the prostate. This is like AJCC stages I and II. Almost 9 out of 10 prostate cancers are found in this early stage."

Really? 9 out of 10 prostate cancer are found while still contained in the prostate?

I really, really, really am having a hard time seeing that as being a fact. No wonder why there is relativelt little spending on curing this, it's really only ONE TENTH of the 241,000 new cases diagnosed this year in the US.

9 out of 10, and cant you usually only say that when you operate and see it's contained?

Anyone care to eleborate on that 90% statement?

Posted 7/29/2011 6:27 PM (GMT -5)
The containment rate for low grade G6 cancers is 85%. The containment rate for all other grades are higher , so the 90% rate can't be factual.
Posted 7/29/2011 7:25 PM (GMT -5)
it does say "almost" cool .

ed

 

Posted 7/29/2011 10:21 PM (GMT -5)
In the legal sense, the "almost" is their way out of the accuracy card for sure.

More importantly to me personally, is this is why I don't like stats, percentages, averages, etc. when it comes to my cancer. None of that information has done me the slightest bit of good in fighting my cancer fight, and my cancer does what it wants and when it wants, regardless of what it "should be doing".

david
Posted 7/29/2011 11:44 PM (GMT -5)
david my friend. My heart is with you now, and tomorrow. Period. Thats the extent of my concern... it isnt about me.
Posted 7/29/2011 11:57 PM (GMT -5)
bob,

i am with you on your most recent posts, glad you are posting this kind of stuff. other's should be made aware of doctors and such that make outrageous claims as your posts have pointed it out.

we all had to start somewhere in our PC journeys, and most of us (myself included) knew little of the real facts, especially the hard cold facts about side effects and complications from primary and secondary treatments.

for those new in the game, i find these type of claims dangerous at worse, misleading at best. who knows how many have made wrong decisions based on such claims.

its hard for me to see it, then being a way to increase revenue directly to the one doing the advertising. dr. s, regardless of his actual surgical skills, seems to be a king among this group that choose to market themselves in such an agressive manner.

i don't buy that he doesn't know what is going on.

good posts in my opinion, if you can find more, please continue, i think its doing a good service, at least for those that come through the portals of HW.

david in sc
Posted 7/30/2011 6:41 AM (GMT -5)

BobCape said...

Anyone care to eleborate on that 90% statement?

Yes.

"Local" means simply that there is no evidence the PC has metastisized at the time of diagnosis to either "regionally" (lymph nodes, prostate bed) or to "distant" sites (bones, other organs).  This has been a dramatic shift in the US over the last several decades.  With PSA testing in the US finding PC earlier and earlier, this number does not surprise me.

For additional clarity, keep in mind that a "local" staging at the time of diagnosis is different than having a positive margin after surgical pathology...as we know, a subset of positive margins never advance further, and another subset do advance but were still not diagnosed as anything other than "local" at the time of diagnosis.

And Purgatory, the article does also address your point that statistics are very important for understanding the likelihood of overall outcomes, but they don't predict the outcome of any one individual.  In the words of ACS:

While these numbers give you an overall picture, keep in mind that every man is unique and the statistics can't predict exactly what will happen in your case. Talk with your cancer care team if you have questions about your own chances of a cure, or how long you might expect to live. They know your situation best.

ACS LINK

 

Posted 7/30/2011 7:44 AM (GMT -5)
There are two different types of staging, clinical and pathological. Clinical staging is the staging you have from biopsies, scans, DREs or the information one has before choosing a treatment. Pathological staging is the staging after surgery where the removed prostate is examined by a pathologist. It is extremely important to know which staging the cure rate is based on.
The pathological staging definately could exceed 90% because it eliminates all known positive margins and leaves only the subset of fully contained cancers of which a small percentage can have micro mets or have a later reoccurrance.
Clinical staging has been consistantly around 85% for low risk cancer 70% for intermediate and 60% for high, as it takes into account all DXed cancers of which a certain percentage will have positive margins or micro mets. Cure rates based on pathological staging are always much higher.
It is very important when someone states a cure rate whether it is based on clinical pathology (the only information you have on which to base a treatment decision) or post op pathology ( the information you have after you have already chosen a treatment, and that treatment choice can only be surgery).
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