HealingWell
Search Close Search
☰

Exercise question -- Casey, et. al.

Support Forums
>
Prostate Cancer
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply
1 2
❬ ❬ Previous Thread |Next Thread ❭ ❭
Posted 1/26/2013 2:36 PM (GMT -5)
Mel,

I had a response typed up a few days ago, but deleted it as I'm not a trainer or nutritionist. Being that you're one of the guys I always read I decided to chime in after all.

I'm a guy who has hit the weights pretty hard in my life.

What you might want to try is doing some of the exercises with very light weight while on the treadmill. Take a couple dumbells, just two to five pounders. And while you're walking do the curls, the lateral raises (for your shoulders), the shoulder shrugs (for your traps). And do maybe 20 reps of each. You'll find that at the pace you are walking it will bump your heartrate up a bit, but it will also tend to loosen the muscles and prepare them for your later weight training.

The other aspect is the nature of the "soreness." Is it joint, muscle, general, or specific? If the soreness is muscle-specific then you should avoid exercises, for the time being, to that muscle group. Same if is joint-specific. If it's general, overall soreness, the problem is probably jumping in too quickly, so slowing down and reducing the weight in favor of high reps for a period of time.

The sequence of exercises is also important. You don't want to do a single muscle group in two or three consecutive sets. That means, if you are doing your bench press and then incline press or flies together, you are overworking the chest muscles. Same would be true if two or three bicep exercises are being done one after the other. If you look at a circuit training course at the gym, you do a chest exercise, then a leg, then a bicep, then a shoulder, then a tricep, then a leg, then a chest, then a back...

Good luck, Mel. Your advice and down to Earth manner on the board is always refreshing to me. Good health, dude.

Post Edited (dude1969) : 1/26/2013 12:42:53 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 1/26/2013 3:08 PM (GMT -5)
Thanks for your helpful post, Dude.

The soreness is definitely muscle (not joint) as far as I can tell.

The more pervasive problem is laziness, but I'll work on that...tomorrow!

<g>

Actually, regarding free weights, I don't do that at the gym. I have free weights at home. I also have a treadmill at home. I prefer the one at the gym (more TV stations -- hey it helps!)

I may try the weights while doing the treadmill.

I do not do leg exercises as this seems to create knee issues.

I will be meeting with a trainer sometime soon. But the current order of my exercises is:

BICEPS CURL
MATRIX CHEST PRESS
MATRIX ABS. CRUNCH
CYBER PLATE LOADED ROW
HAMMER CHEST PRESS
CYBEX LATERAL PULLDOWN
ROPE PULLDOWN
BACK EXTENSIONS

I'm wondering if some of these machines are redundant?

Also, how would you change the above order?

Mel

Posted 1/26/2013 5:16 PM (GMT -5)
I can't answer about redundancy, because I still speak in 80's-90's workout terminology. smilewinkgrin So I'm not certain what they are.

As for TV shows, I have quite the collection because I just can't walk for 45 minutes w/o watching good reruns. If you're a fan of Get Smart, I'll get it to you. Those got me thru about 3 months of losing weight and getting back into working out a few years ago.

I work out at home. 3 kids, 5 and under, keep me on a very short leash. :-)
Posted 1/26/2013 8:53 PM (GMT -5)

compiler said...
I've been trying to get back to the gym on a regular basis.
Here is what has been happening lately:

I get in a good workout session. I do the treadmill and a variety of nautalus type machines. It's about a 90 minute real good session. BUT, the next day I start to get very sore and much worse the day after. It seems to take 5-6 days before I am feeling back to normal. This has not happened like this in days past. Quite often I might be sore for a day or two but then I'm good to go. I'm sure part of this is the ageing process. But is there anything I can do to lessen this problem? Is it the order of exerises, or should I try some particular supplement?

I guess maybe I can do less at my gym session, but in general I have no problems doing the workout. It is the day after (and the days after that) where problems emerge. The main problem is that I probably shouldn't go back to the gym when I'm quite sore.

Mel

Perfect normal. You'll stop getting sore as a result of the work out at about the 6 week mark. This is also how long it usually takes people to get addicted to working out and to not want to miss the routine. Once you stop getting sore, you'll have to up the weights and intensity of workout in order to get that sore feeling again.

I and many others like the sore feeling because that's your muscles repairing which is a sign of a good workout.
Posted 1/26/2013 9:01 PM (GMT -5)
ps - I'd stay away from machines. They work the muscle the same exact way every time and there isn't much of a pay off. Free weights are much better as you work different muscles while trying to compensate.

Not sure how long you're on the treadmill, but it usually takes me one hour to get a good non-cardio workout in. And that's at pretty fast pace including super sets for strength training. I don't read magazines between sets but many do and they definitely need an hour to get through a solid set.

I usually do 30-45 min on the treadmill so 90-120 min seems right for a full workout.

But I do see people who are also very serious who do a 45 min set but if you see their intensity you'd understand why that's enough for them. They pretty much alternate different sets with 15 second breaks for the duration of the workout and come in every day. Those guys tend to sweat as much while doing weights as we do while running on the treadmill.
Posted 1/26/2013 11:07 PM (GMT -5)
Thanks Davidg.

Oh, I remember the good sore feeling when working out. This is not quite the same. With the normal soreness, I would be all better 2 or 3 days and ready for another workout. This is lasting 3-4 days and seems a tad different.

Regarding the treadmill:

During nice weather times (April through mid-November here in mid-Michigan), I would do a brisk walk to and from the gym (it is 0.8 miles from my house) and also do 6 or so laps on the treadmill. These days I drive to the gym and do 6-8 laps on the treadmill, but eventually it will be 10-12 laps, I hope.

Mel

Posted 1/27/2013 9:19 AM (GMT -5)
do you do interval training on the treadmill? I found that to always give the biggest payoff. Good treadmills have a button where you can program two speeds and seamlessly switch form one to the other. So for instance, when I was very serious about it, I would program the machine at 3.0 speed for walking and 11.0 for sprinting. I'd do a minute at 3.0 and 30 seconds at 11.0 for 20 minutes. Then I'd switch speeds and times for another 10 or 20 minutes. All this could be done seamlessly by pressing one button every time I switched. The end result was a much more effective way to weight loss, but mostly, I was able to increase my speed which was important because I played soccer.

Regarding your pain, maybe you should see your doctor. Could be a lot of things. I had issues when running with shin splints plantar fasciaitis and mostly my calves locking up. Had no idea what it was. When I discovered I was severely depleted of vitamin B, D and with folic acid I started taking supplements and all those pains and aches vanished. It can be something as simple as that, but probably good for your doc to investigate and advise.
Posted 1/27/2013 9:41 AM (GMT -5)
I've heard of studies showing that strenuous exercise of > 60 minutes can lower your testosterone level, so beware if you want to build muscle.
Posted 1/27/2013 11:15 AM (GMT -5)
Diamonds:

For those of us with an aggressive PC, lowering the T-level is probably not a real bad thing! I'll be doing that anyway as HT is in my very near future!

Davidg -- my knees are just fine as long as I avoid squatting, jogging, or some of the lower body strengthening machines. My knee surgery repaired two tears in my meniscus and the surgeon also smoothed out some significant arthritic areas. I find glucosamine with MSM capsules have been very helpful (no chondroitin -- not good for PC). It is not shin splints. The pain I get is right in the knee joint. But when I avoid the aforementioned behaviors, I am fine (totally pain-free). As far as the treadmill goes, I prefer the manual controls. I start at 1.5, and increase the speed gradually. After 2 laps I am up to 3.xx. I usually end up averaging somewhere between 3.6 and 4.0, except for the lst laqp, which is a cool down. This is just short of a jog, but enough to get my heart rate within the optimum interval. Lately I have been doing about 6-7 laps. I can easily do more, and once I get back in a groove I will probably do 9-12 laps. When the weather warms up I can do the brisk walk to and from the gym so that will top off the aerobic part. I have done the interval setting on the treadmill, but I just prefer the manual one.

Mel

 

Posted 1/27/2013 11:23 AM (GMT -5)
A question that came up in this thread was which to do first: cardio or weight training.

Here's an interesting article that deals with that:

http://sportsmedicine.about.com/od/training/a/ExerciseOrder.htm

To summarize, for overall health, it doesn't matter.

But otherwise, do first whatever your goal is. If it is muscle building, do the weights first. They also talk about interval training and alternating days.

In my personal situation, once I an on HT, muscle training will become most important, but both are important. Frankly, it is still a question of getting back into SOME REGULAR routine. Once that gets done, then one can deal with some of the finer points.

Mel

Posted 1/27/2013 7:15 PM (GMT -5)
it always helps to do a quick 5-10 min of cardio before weights as a means to warm up.

On days where I do both together I always end with a run. From a practical point of view, I also alwasy preferred to work out on the weights when not dripping in sweat. Fellow gym members also seem to frown upon guys drenched in sweat sharing benches and stuff.
Posted 1/28/2013 7:42 AM (GMT -5)
I've read those articles too about cardio or weight training occurring first. Like everything else in the world, it seems, each camp has it's own perspective with "studies" to back up their argument. Sounds familiar, huh?

I tend to buy into some kind of warm up first before weight training. I use free weights and have always done 20-30 minutes of cardio prior to that. I think the warm-up is essential to avoid injury, but there doesn't seem to be much evidence that the cardio is first is how to avoid injury. But I do think there is good anecdotal evidence, particularly when one looks at how athletes prepare for workouts and games, it always includes at least a brief period of warm-up.

For me, 45 minutes of cardio and another 30 minutes of circuit free weight training with only short breaks between sets is what I've found most effective. I will sometimes use the "circuit" training that davidg pointed out, where I'll walk at a near run pace for 2 minutes at a time. You do get your heart rate up that way. But be careful, if you're not watching or aware, you can quickly get into the danger area.

I really like using the really light weights while walking on the treadmill. The curls, side (lateral) raises, military presses, shrugs, and forearm curls. This gets the heart rate up in a similar way to increasing the speeds in the "interval" training way that davidg points out without raising the speed on the treadmill. It also accomplishes the warm-up for me where I get the joints moving and activated before I hit the weights.

Good luck. I don't think there's any wrong way to do it, but knowing your body and the type of pain you're having is most important. Read your body, you know it best, and adjust accordingly.
Posted 1/28/2013 3:52 PM (GMT -5)
Mel It makes no difference imo. What suits you is my answer. I started doing cardio long be fore I ever did anything else. So when i started the other I just did it after cardio. My recommendation for anyone approaching sixty or over is 65/35 cardio/core, in sequence of choice. I do 50/50 to 60/40 but have been at it a long time. Its hard to do a lot of cardio at first but comes quickly. A runners high is not a myth. you just have to hang in there till you get cardio fit. Running= any exercise that elevates heart rate for a sustain time. Operational word there is sustained. Logo You are getting into it. if its in your mind consistantly, the body will sheepishly follow.i.e. Like it was meant to…..
Posted 1/28/2013 3:52 PM (GMT -5)
Mel It makes no difference imo. What suits you is my answer. I started doing cardio long be fore I ever did anything else. So when i started the other I just did it after cardio. My recommendation for anyone approaching sixty or over is 65/35 cardio/core, in sequence of choice. I do 50/50 to 60/40 but have been at it a long time. Its hard to do a lot of cardio at first but comes quickly. A runners high is not a myth. you just have to hang in there till you get cardio fit. Running= any exercise that elevates heart rate for a sustain time. Operational word there is sustained. Logo, ps. You are getting into it. if its in your mind consistantly, the body will sheepishly follow.i.e. Like it was meant to…..
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply
12