Thank you both, guys. And no problemo Prato. I think the OP mentioned whining in the thread starter, so I just picked up the phrase***. Yes, I do complain a lot about what happened, but I am fortunate that so far everything is undetectable and it appears that this beast may have been defeated. For that I am very fortunate.

*** I just went back and checked... I think it was 'alephnull' who brought it up. But I'm not pointing any fingers.

But what has been unhealthy, for me at least, is coming here and telling my story, or parts of it, over and over... when the best thing I can do... what I should be doing, is getting over it. Just last month my doc recommended that I lay off the surgeries for a while (I had already intended to not do any more than is absolutely necessary).

Men and women... yes, our roles are different. As I'd said before, it's not a matter of who has the worse cancer, or whose cancer gets more attention. But there does seem to be this camaraderie among women with women's cancers, and men are pretty much excluded from the 'club' if you will. It's just the way guys are. But hey, many of us got to be among the "band of brothers". Personally I've been enjoying chewing the fat with other guys (and a few ladies) in the vet groups on FB.

Post Edited (RobLee) : 5/27/2019 4:51:02 PM (GMT-6)

Rob, I think we are all trying to get over it and move on with life. Like you, I am grateful for my undetectable PSA, and work hard not to dwell on the what if’s. Like you, I’m often successful in doing that. But with that said, we all have our good days and bad days. And on the bad days, it’s goid to have the forum (on goid days too). Just saying,we are all entitled to our bad days.

I agree Rob let it go...while your behind...it ain't worken for ya...and if it stings..thats a sure sign to let it go...

"FranPro said...
Lies and Deceptions"

"Your story has no lies and deceptions. It was a story of delusions and seeking others to blame. You will continue to struggle with yourself until you face reality. Good luck."

Blackjack, I think you are missing the point I was trying to make. I was advocating for PC education and action. Sure, I am still getting my arms around this whole cancer thing, but I am not blaming anyone except for how our society has down played "the good cancer". I am guilty of saying that myself to my wife when her 82 yr old dad was diagnosed with it just months before me. Karma is a *****! Great discussion going on in here though.

My two cents. . Late 90's my husband's father was scheduled for surgery. He told everyone he had to get his prostate removed. None of us knew what a prostate was. It was after the fact that we found out it was because of cancer - I'm sure they wanted to wait for the final pathology before they said anything. The only thing we were told was that they got it all and then it was never mentioned again. We have no idea if he had any long term side effects from the surgery. So all of us - my husband has three brothers and four sisters - went on with our lives since he seemed to be fine. He's now in his late 80's and has outlived his wife. We have no idea if he still gets his PSA checked or is on any treatment because he still doesn't talk about it even knowing my husband as diagnosed with stage IV. Funny thing is he had some small spots of skin cancer removed and he talked about that CONSTANTLY. It turned into a family joke because he got so paranoid about being in the sun.

One of my husband's brothers has battled a large prostate for years but so far, no cancer. Two of his other brothers haven't been tested (as far as we know but again, no one talks about the elephant in the room). We've tried to be open about his diagnosis. While I'm not sure it's helped his family, we had one friend that decided to have his PSA tested after hearing about my husband's diagnosis. He found out he had prostate cancer and rushed into surgery (his wife was loosing the medical insurance) but he's never given me any details about PSA, Gleason or lasting side effects.

Men are often very closed about their medical problems and especially any emotional issues. Presumably it is seen as "unmanly" to speak openly about things which are so personal and private. Women tend to me more open and supportive of each other. Plus add the "dirty" nature of the prostate... something that is uniquely male and as far as anyone knows is related strictly to S-E-X... not necessarily reproductive or related to child bearing.

I've mentioned this before, but say "prostate" and often you get looks as though you've said something impolite or unpleasant. I would dare say that MOST people would have never heard of prostate CANCER unless a close relative, usually their father, has been treated or died from it. I know my grandfather died from/with PCa and extensive bone mets... though that didn't seem to influence my urologist.

But to this day - now 32 years later, my sister and I cannot be certain what caused my father's death. It was stated as "multiple organ failure" though he never spoke with any of us about his problems... only that he wanted to stay out of the hospital and die at home, which he did.

Much of the current anthropological theory as to why men think the way they do and women think the way they do goes something like this.

In prehistoric times, men, because they were physically stronger, took charge of, and managed survival of, the family. Thus, protecting and providing for the family came to be paramount in the man's mind, and achieving that came to favor a certain mode of thinking in men. Namely, objective, analytical, critical evaluation of the facts. And in those harsh times it often followed that a harsh, cruel decision had to be made by this male, who was head of his family and possibly even head of the tribe. "Ogg can't keep up with us? Sorry, he'll have to be left behind." "Food is running out? Don't give any more to the ones who are dieing anyway." Ordering and carrying out such tough decisions required control of emotions, or feelings toward those affected, otherwise those difficult decisions couldn't be made. Hence, evolution favored development of men's thinking that was both objective and analytical, but as well highly emotionally controlled, in order to make the tough decisions that sometimes had to be made.

Evolution did see to some bonding among males, as in war or sports, but that involved the development of successful evolutionary strategies for hunting game, a different matter.

For women, on the other hand, what was paramount for them was production of and survival of their offspring. To achieve this, women realized early on that forming alliances with other women in the tribe ("You look out for my kids and I'll look out for yours") was a highly successful strategy for increasing the likelihood that their offspring survived into adulthood. Also, the development and implementation of feelings and emotions in women served as bonding agents for creating those kinds of alliances with the other women in the tribe. So emotional sharing and bonding with other women were favored by evolution in women.

In modern times this has translated into the patterns we see in male and female behavior today. Women have evolved that natural bonding inclination which makes it second-nature for them to help other women (their potential allies). Today, that might include rallying together to fight a disease.

But for men, their evolutionary-developed suppression of feelings, as described above, and need to stand strong as a leader, ready to make the tough decisions and not needing any help himself, which might interfere with the making of those tough decisions, work against them.

The answer? We guys need to realize that this is not 20,000 B.C. and it's fine to take a page from the ladies' book when it comes to taking the kind of action that is obviously successful in working to overcome something like PCa.

FranPro said...

Blackjack, I think you are missing the point I was trying to make. I was advocating for PC education and action. Sure, I am still getting my arms around this whole cancer thing, but I am not blaming anyone except for how our society has down played "the good cancer". I am guilty of saying that myself to my wife when her 82 yr old dad was diagnosed with it just months before me. Karma is a *****! Great discussion going on in here though.

OK, man. Maybe I wasn't clairvoyant enough. I just read your words in your original post. "Lies and deception" were not in the story you told, and I've not seen evidence or indication of a grand conspiracy cooked-up to screw men. On the other hand, there are instances of doctor's failing to follow their professional medical society's guidelines (get another doctor), and also instances of patient's failing to listen to discussions with their doctors (look in the mirror)...I wouldn't call either of these "lies and deception."


Regarding the topic you have brought into the conversation about PC being a "good cancer," this notion is a contemporary gross misinterpretation of the words of PC-pioneer Dr Willett Whitmore (1917-1995; known as "the father of urological oncology"). Paraphrasing what Dr Whitmore actually said is that there are "good prostate cancers" and "bad prostate cancers." Absolutely true, and clear. Personally, the way that I like to restate this and not create any possible misinterpretation is this: Prostate cancer is among the more common and less lethal malignancies, yielding a large population of survivors. Do you think that is a lie or a deception?

BlackJack:

We are probably dealing with semantics/interpretations.
I've been going through plenty of crap dealing with my PC.
It certainly is not the "good PC."
I have a G 4+3 case. I failed surgery and SRT. I've spent countless hours on HW and elsewhere educating myself on this disease. December will be 10 years since my very serious dx. I've gone through h$ll dealing with anticipating PSA tests/scans and awaiting the results and dealing with HT (no fun AT ALL).
Do I have the BAD PC? Well, so far no symptoms. Reading about those of you with extensive mets, how can I say I have the BAD PC??

However, as far as cancers go, I have a good cancer. After all, I'm still here. (Of course, I prefer basal cell skin cancer, actually!). Had I been dx. with liver or lung or pancreatic cancer in 2009, I would probably not be here.
So, yeah, I got the good cancer. I am not rejoicing, but it is good to know.

Mel

gotcha, bozo!

You got the rind...PeterD….but the fruit ain't kind … of course you knew that when you concocted your wagging tail...in other words...you bullshat your friends and I'll bullshat mine...but lets not bullshat each other...but I see you have your...as someone once said..."one reader" most wont get that reference..but you will...make someone happy just one someone happy...his name is legion and his post... oops was right before yours...know what I mean jelly bean...truth always in all ways come out...its just the way the mop flops as did your wary tale


Ok I think its time for Yo mama so fat jokes...you may do better at that...oh and be cool I don't want to sic 142 on ya...other than Peter Waite...he is the only one on the staff...with moxie...decisiveness and quite frankly honesty...

“At least for those who seem to live for something to quibble about on this forum“

Yes, no kidding. We may do better by concerning ourselves more with what we have to say and less about what others have said.