Texas reopened early, here's the result

Tudpock18 said...
A new record in Florida today...almost 10,000 new cases. We're Number 1! Take that Texas and California.

Jim

“We’ve succeeded,” DeSantis said on May 20, “and I think that people just don’t want to recognize it because it challenges their narrative.”

LOL

81GyGuy said...
Predictions have been made and continue to come out as to how the pandemic will go now.
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And:

"The only thing that will prevent all of these potential scenarios is the development of a vaccine."

"The second scenario is possibly the most frightening because in many countries health systems ... could buckle under the strain and collapse, causing utter chaos and extremely high death rate."

"The third scenario is no less terrifying, and may be more likely to occur. Because ... COVID-19 could keep evolving so that it is effectively a new virus to which we have little immunity. If this happens it could also potentially derail efforts to develop a vaccine."

" ... the pandemic is unlikely to be completely over until late 2022."

Just one agency's take on what might happen, but maybe useful as a picture of what the general, coming patterns of this thing may look like.

https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/future-covid-19-three-potential-scenarios

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Terrifying indeed, and for me so, SO frustrating. No matter how many studies come along all showing the same thing, and none showing harm, no one is willing to inform the public about vitamin D or C or other possible helps. All the studies taken together indicate- to me at least- that paying attention to D and/or IV vitamin C- it is way more than possible that untold thousands of deaths could have been prevented. In that little clinical trial I previously linked to, where AFTER admission with CV-19 they gave a measly 1000 IU/day of D along with some magnesium(M) and B12(DMB) for a median of 5 days, 3 of the 17(17%) given D+ progressed to needing oxygen, compared to 16 of 26( 61%) in the control group. As for ICU admission, 66% of the DMB went on to need ICU, compared to 100% of the control group!

But these patients did not get DBB many times until well into advanced illness. "Of the 9 patients who received early DMB (in the first week of hospitalization), only one deteriorated, being among the 2, which required oxygen early...............The analysis showed that the odds of requiring oxygen went up with age and the presence of other illnesses, but went down significantly with DMB treatment, even after adjusting for age, gender, and other illnesses. The odds would have been even more impressive if the two patients who received DMB late in their clinical course were excluded. Importantly, there were no adverse effects that could be traced to DMB."

But here is a wild thought: rather than starting some D + M + B12 supplementation after people are already sick enough to be admitted to the hospital, what if Dr. Fauci and other revered and listened to by the masses medical authorities came out and informed the public of the possible help, with minimal cost and risk, that some of these alternative approaches might very well provide? If it helped that much once these folks were already bad sick, isn't it reasonably possible that it would be an even bigger help if they had already been taking these things before they were exposed to the dang virus? WTH? What is wrong with these people? I am beyond disgusted with all of them. To this very day, if I tell people I know about D and C and IV C, not a few of them look at me as though I am wearing a tin foil hat. Because, after all, they have doctors for this sort of thing, and why haven't their docs told them? ( sometimes they have, but usually not) So, naturally my theories may be viewed with some suspicion. For the majority of them, leading them to a study for them to read for themselves ain't gonna happen.

So here we sit, with jobs and small businesses in continuing ruin, heading back into more shut down, people terrified to be in contact with other people, and all they can tell us is that either science must save us with a vaccine, or we must hunker down for a year or more while thousands die anyway. As though there is nothing else to be done to GREATLY lower risk. I must admit that situation makes me very angry.

I am fortunate enough to have one of the critical care professors/docs, associated with the IV vitamin C treatment for CV-19, located only 90 miles away in Memphis. He is one of the docs with the Frontline COVID-19
Critical Care Alliance (FLCCC). But if my loved ones or I come down with a case sending us to ICU, I'm not at all sure I could badger one of the local docs into following their protocol. It might require legal threats. And could I get transferred to his care in Memphis? I have been wondering if I should try to make contact with him ahead of time. Or, there is the chance that he knows one or more of our CC docs, and maybe a phone call from him could convince them? What a sad state of affairs that I even have to think in such terms, i.e. how can I get the local docs to do the correct thing? This is the guy I want right here, closest one of them to me, about 1 minute into this little video. I have been thinking about trying to contact him in advance: https://vimeo.com/419666044 ( He is not talking about IV vitamin C here, rather methylprednisolone, but he definitely gives C with it, as well as thiamine?B1, and heparin for the blood clots.)

I might be proved wrong once it is all over with. But I am convinced that between D and C and last ditch effort IV vitamin C + methylprednisolone ( and old, safe, cheap, readily available drug which I have given many times in the OR over the years), and maybe a few others like zinc, few if any had to die of this disease. Of course, if some one is on the verge of death in a nursing home, they re probably going to die no matter what you do, even if they get a slight cold. So there would be some we could not save, but the majority, everyone not already on the verge of death? After all, most of the deaths have been among our nursing homes and black folks, both of whom are known for the worse vitamin D insufficiency of all groups. So maybe I'm wrong, but I think few had to die, and they have died for lack of readily available, cheap, safe substances. But it's like a deep, dark secret, a great mystery, a great unknown to the public or most of our doctors, there seems to be no one to tell them. And it just pisses me off.

BillyBob@388 said...
Well, guess who might have been right after all? "

you can always be right if you cherry pick your "proof"

Buddy Blank said...
Of interest perhaps: WHO has halted the hydroxychloroquine Covid-19 trials for the SECOND time.

https://www.rt.com/news/493834-who-hydroxychloroquine-covid-trials-stopped/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss

https://twitter.com/who/status/1279456580493357057

My question for you BB is that if the regimen you trumpet works why haven't governments, en masse, adopted it? 1.) They like seeing people die? 2.) They're ALL bought off (the entire world's governments)? 3.) A giant Big Pharma conspiracy (which is really the same as #2)? It just doesn't make sense. I don't believe it works.

Buddy, you are asking me about vitamin D/C etc? And not about hydroxychloroquine(HDC), I think, as I have not trumpeted that, despite reporting that interesting study. I don't think the HDC will measure up to D and C and IV C, plus it has more likely serious SEs. But, I won't give an answer to your question because it will just start a war, or it would break rules on politics.

I will leave it to rational minds to figure out the why of this insanity, to be polite. But, you say it doesn't work, despite the many recent and consistent studies? Do you have a study for me, showing the opposite, to back that up? I have supplied about 7 recent studies on the D, as you well know, plus a few on C. And all of these studies have only backed up what I was publicly proclaiming before the studies came out: which was that I was willing to bet money that, if someone would only measure it, every person in ICU and especially if on a ventilator, had low vitamin D and C, most likely severely low. Amazingly, more than one decided to measure( D at least), and that was exactly the case. In one case, the one out of Louisiana, for those under age 75 in ICU, it was 100% were low. I have not seen a study showing the opposite, have you? If so, I'd like to see it.

But, Buddy, you don't believe it? Really? No offense, Buddy, but that is hard to believe. Haven't you even linked to some studies on D and/or C yourself? I think you were the one who notified me, before I knew about it myself, that some hospitals in NYC were giving 6000 mg per day(1500X4) IV vitamin C(and I still thank you for that).

Also, I'm thinking you recently said you took 4000 IU/day vitamin D, is that right? Was that you? Well, what are you taking it for if you don't believe there is a good chance it might help you with something? What is it you suspect it might help you with? If you are taking it, would you not tell a loved one why you thought it was probably a good idea? Unlike our authorities, who will tell no one. For whatever reason, I will leave that for Y'all to figure out.

I wonder how many of us here are not taking D and C and maybe a couple of others, like K2 and a little A and magnesium and/or maybe a little zinc? At least during the pandemic? Since this seems to be a pretty smart bunch, I'm thinking of very few.

Though I still won't specify a reason, a comment on the subject of "why?": Remember one of the studies linked to earlier( probably in my most recent thread on D)? The study being reported looked quite good for D vs CV-19, but several experts were quoted with something like "Yeah, this is interesting, but folks don't need to be taking D for CV-19, because there is not enough evidence yet". Then about a paragraph later, the same gal that said that says "but there IS good evidence for flu and other infectious diseases, so I- and a lot of us doctors and our families - started taking D when the CV-19 was starting". BUT THEY ARE NOT ONLY NOT TELLING US, BUT DISCOURAGING US FROM TAKING IT until there is MORE EVIDENCE! Even my own URO, when I asked him, says "Oh for sure, I am taking it. 5000 IU/day, because I have a family history of PC and other reasons". But did he ever tell me I might want to look into it? No he didn't. You ask why? I don't know for sure, but I will keep my opinion on that to myself.

Post Edited (BillyBob@388) : 7/4/2020 11:01:18 PM (GMT-6)

BB, you keep plugging Vit C and D, and asking the "why" question--implying there is this evil plot involving big pharma in collusion with the "medical establishment" (which is really your main point in many of your posts). Maybe, just maybe, it's not a plot.

I may be misquoting, but it goes something like this: Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence.

I dont' know why doctors are loath to suggest vitamin therapies--but it may be as simple as fear of loosing their license if someone goes to the extreme of (a) megadosing and (b) dropping everything else and then suing the doctor when they get really, really sick.

Be well.

BB & BB -- Your opinions, so confidently stated and amply backed up by studies, need a national news platform. Something to think about.

Its not a conspiracy. Its stupidity., and crisis MISmanagement.

Japan - population 125 MM - total Covid cases - 19667
South Korea - pop- 51 MM - total Covid cases - 13,691
US - pop- 300MM - total Covid cases - 2.8 MILLION

halbert said...
BB, you keep plugging Vit C and D, and asking the "why" question--implying there is this evil plot involving big pharma in collusion with the "medical establishment" (which is really your main point in many of your posts). Maybe, just maybe, it's not a plot.

I may be misquoting, but it goes something like this: Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence.

I dont' know why doctors are loath to suggest vitamin therapies--but it may be as simple as fear of loosing their license if someone goes to the extreme of (a) megadosing and (b) dropping everything else and then suing the doctor when they get really, really sick.

Be well.

I have in my other threads asked why, since I can see no reason why. But here I have been responding to Buddy's questions to me "My question for you BB is that if the regimen you trumpet works why haven't governments, en masse, adopted it?" and then he gives some possible answers that would align with what you said "implying there is this evil plot ". Not that he thinks that, but for him there were two options: 1: an evil plot or 2: vitamin D or C or IV C etc do not work.

I will leave it to you to decide what I might be implying about "why?". But, at least based on available evidence(subject to change later when more evidence is available), I don't for a NY minute believe they don't help. So does that only leave Buddy's other choices? Well, I am not going to make such a claim, but I still think I am allowed to ask "why" are such a simple, relatively safe and apparently at least some what helpful options never mentioned by our authorities and the main stream media? One thing I am fairly certain on based on previous experience: if they come up with a study showing that most folks in ICU with CV-19 have higher vitamin D or C blood levels than those who are not so sick, and the higher the level the sicker they are, or that IV vitamin C is making them sicker or killing folks, we will all of a sudden hear that as a headline on NBC nightly news for one. I am again willing to bet money on that one. Now I am not necessarily implying anything with that claim, but: do you disagree that we would hear all about it?

Halbert, I am curious: do you or your loved ones supplement with vitamin D and/or C etc? If so, why? One thing is highly likely: if you do it is NOT because any nationally known governmental or medical authority has advised you to do so. If you are doing so, you are doing so based on your own research, or if you are lucky the advice of a personal doctor who is not exactly Dr. Fauci. Dr. Fauci tells us a lot of things, but to make sure our blood levels of vitamin D are sufficient is not one of them.

Also, you said with a quote: "I may be misquoting, but it goes something like this: Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence. ". Well, you may or may not be on to something there, but I can't that makes me feel any better or less disgusted.

BTW, when you say: "asking the "why" question--implying there is this evil plot involving big pharma in collusion with the "medical establishment" (which is really your main point in many of your posts). ", I must ask: have I said any such thing in any of my posts? (who knows, I have had some heated posts, because this situation makes me quite angry, and I might have said something extreme, but I don't recall saying that). I certainly have asked "why" many times, and you and others feel that is what I am implying. But I am not going to make such accusations, even if I ask "why". For one thing, what ever their faulty reasoning is on not making such info public, I just want them to get their head out of their *** and point out the many recent studies on the subject, all of which most certainly more than IMPLY that there is help to be had outside of a $3500 drug with it's SEs that MIGHT help some, or hunkering down until they come up with a vaccine which will probably be between 10 and 90% effective, like their flu vaccines. And which itself will probably bring along a few SEs, maybe bad ones for some people. There are things to be done in the meantime, and they refuse to tell us for whatever reason. The evidence is there for those who are willing to and know how to look for it, but we are on our own as far as finding out. Whatever the reason might be.

Post Edited (BillyBob@388) : 7/5/2020 12:58:11 PM (GMT-6)

Years ago when my wife had to take an aromatease inhibitor for her breast cancer the oncologist ordered a D3 test and found she was very deficient. The meds will cause a reduced ability to absorb Vit D. He put her on 4,000 units a day and a 50,000 booster every two weeks. Once she got to the proper levels, the boosters were stopped.

When I was diagnosed, my urologist did a complete blood work up before treatment started and found I was borderline deficient, as well, and put me on 5,000 units a day. He said long term ADT contributes to lower D levels and stressed the importance of maintaining proper levels.

When the Covid started, I had a scheduled checkup and PSA draw and in his routine questions my uro confirmed that I was still taking D supplements. He said it is vital for the immune system and could make a difference if I contracted Covid. So there are smart docs and we are glad to have them on our team.

Unfortuntely, Medicare does not reimburse for the testing, except in very narrow situations and I am now in a fight with them over several deeds of dollars in lab denials.

JNF said...
Years ago when my wife had to take an aromatease inhibitor for her breast cancer the oncologist ordered a D3 test and found she was very deficient. The meds will cause a reduced ability to absorb Vit D. He put her on 4,000 units a day and a 50,000 booster every two weeks. Once she got to the proper levels, the boosters were stopped.

When I was diagnosed, my urologist did a complete blood work up before treatment started and found I was borderline deficient, as well, and put me on 5,000 units a day. He said long term ADT contributes to lower D levels and stressed the importance of maintaining proper levels.

When the Covid started, I had a scheduled checkup and PSA draw and in his routine questions my uro confirmed that I was still taking D supplements. He said it is vital for the immune system and could make a difference if I contracted Covid. So there are smart docs and we are glad to have them on our team.

Unfortuntely, Medicare does not reimburse for the testing, except in very narrow situations and I am now in a fight with them over several deeds of dollars in lab denials.

Well, JNF, it sounds like you have some excellent docs, as is my niece's onco over in GA, who apparently after she made it stage 4 breast cancer back around 2014 (2 previous treated bouts of stage 3) put her on(prescription) 10,000/day. I'm not at all saying that is what did it, and she of course had traditional treatment all along the way, but 6 years later there is currently "no sign of it". But it also seems extremely likely it did not hurt! ( BTW, at some point, and and at least once, she also had IV vitamin C! ) So obviously there are some out there with the same opinion as me on this subject( or maybe, as the current subject is CV-19, not cancer), and I suspect there are more and more every day re: this subject. And about it's importance to the immune system, which applies equally to cancer and infectious disease like CV-19. But, I know from many elderly who I ask if their docs have put them on any dose of D, or mentioned it to them, that there are still plenty of docs who are either ignorant of this subject or have some other reason for just not going there. Plus none of my docs have ever brought it up, even the one who was taking it himself. And of course, at the national level, such as press conferences and such, fahgettabout it.

But, sounds like you lucked out with your extra informed docs! I am tickled to hear about more and more cases like yours! One lady at church told me her doc told her, at the start of the pandemic, "whatever D you're taking, double it". ( I assume he measures blood levels)

Post Edited (BillyBob@388) : 7/5/2020 2:16:59 PM (GMT-6)

"Tim, I live in SW Florida where we have been reopening and loosening things for weeks now. I had to go to Home Depot yesterday and I came home and told my wife, "there is no pandemic at Home Depot". I estimate only half of the employees had masks and ALMOST NONE of the customers; I literally felt like the Long Ranger. Our restaurants are bustling again, many of the grocery store patrons don't wear masks (2 weeks ago it was 90% mask wearing at Publix, now I think it's more like 30%) and the partying has begun. Time will tell how this works out but the Florida case rate is now going up at a 45 degree angle..."

I posted the above just one month ago today. Could it be a surprise to anyone (except maybe our Governor) that Florida is now the epicenter of the pandemic? Cases up, hospitalizations up, deaths up, many ICU's at capacity...Geez....

Jim