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1 core 4+3; 90%

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Fozzworth
New Member
Joined : Nov 2024
Posts : 5
Posted 11/12/2024 11:16 AM (GMT -5)
I’m 53 and had a normal PSA (1.99) in early 2023, but my levels rose after starting TRT. My PSA was 3.99 before TRT, then increased to 7-8 by July 2024. I opted for an MRI first, which came back negative (PI-RADS 1) with no suspicious lesions and suggested prostatitis based on diffuse low T2 signal and SMI_diffusion imaging. However, a biopsy later showed Gleason 6 (3+3) in multiple cores on the right and one core with Gleason 7 (4+3) involving 90%. The left side was benign.

Next Steps: My urologist has recommended a PET scan to check for any spread, and we’re discussing prostatectomy as a treatment option. I felt blindsided since I expected the MRI to show something if there was cancer. I’d appreciate insights from anyone who has had similar experiences.

Questions for the Group:

MRI and Biopsy Discrepancies: Has anyone else had a negative MRI (PI-RADS 1) but a biopsy that showed Gleason 7? Did you learn why the MRI missed it, and did that affect your treatment plan?

PET Scan Insights: For those who had a PET scan after a positive biopsy, did it provide clarity on any spread? Was it able to confirm or clarify the Gleason findings?

Decision Between Surgery and Radiation: If you had Gleason 7 (4+3) and had to choose between prostatectomy and radiation, what led to your decision? Were there specific factors or side effects that influenced you?

Experiences with Prostatitis and Cancer Together: Has anyone dealt with both prostatitis and cancer simultaneously? Did the inflammation affect your treatment plan or recovery?

TRT and PSA Levels: Has anyone had PSA levels rise after starting TRT? If you had to stop TRT following a cancer diagnosis, did that impact your quality of life significantly?

Encouragement or Advice: With only one core at Gleason 7, is there a good chance for a favorable outcome? I’d appreciate any personal stories or advice on navigating this phase.

Thank you all for any insights or experiences you can share. This has been a challenging journey, and I’m grateful for any guidance.
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Tudpock18
Forum Moderator
Joined : Sep 2008
Posts : 5676
Posted 11/12/2024 2:04 PM (GMT -5)
Hello Fozz and welcome. Sorry you have to be here but we have a great group of experienced folks on this forum that will help you get through this. I'll take a shot at answering your questions.

1. MRI and biopsy discrepancies. Yeah, that's not uncommon. An MRI can show suspicion of cancer but only a biopsy can diagnose for sure. Assuming the Gleason score is correct from the biopsy then the MRI/biopsy discrepancy is irrelevant. What is relevant is that prostate biopsy grading is as much art as it is science. I would recommend getting a second opinion on your biopsy slides from a major pathology center. Many folks here have used Johns Hopkins. There is a link in our sticky threads to show you how to do this or you can just Google second opinions on prostate biopsy at JHU and you will get info about how to do this.

2. PET scan. This is important. Get a PSMA pet scan and this can give you an indication as to whether or not the cancer has spread beyond the capsule. With your stats this is unlikely but you want to know as it may affect your treatment decision.

3. Decision between surgery and radiation. I had a G7 cancer and chose radiation for quality of life reasons. The surgery is a major operation and can lead to onerous sexual and urinary side effects. Radiation is likely to give you some short term urinary and perhaps bowel urgency that should go away quickly. With radiation there is a very small chance of secondary cancer way down the road. Both options are likely to result in total cure in your case.
You should definitely talk with radiation oncologists (maybe several) to assess your cancer. Don't take radiation advice from a uro/surgeon and vice versa.

4. Prostatitis and cancer. I didn't have that experience but it is likely your radiation doc may want to calm down the prostatitis before radiation. A surgeon will be cutting it out anyway so it's not likely a factor.

5. TRT and PSA. There are others on this forum that have dealt with that and are likely to chime in.

6. Encouragement. Take your time, do the right testing, see multiple doctors and do your homework. There are multiple avenues for a cure and cure is likely in your future.

Good luck and please feel free to ask any and all questions.

Jim
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halbert
Veteran Member
Joined : Dec 2014
Posts : 6226
Posted 11/12/2024 2:23 PM (GMT -5)
Fozzworth, welcome to our club that none of us really wanted. You've made a good start, you're here, you're asking good questions.

All an MRI can do is say "something suspicious is going on", and the biopsy--hopefully in the spot the MRI identified--confirms and gives us the indication of what and how much is going on. The 90% in the sample is essentially meaningless. It means they hit the spot right on, that's about it. They took out a piece maybe a half-inch long, and it represents much less than 1% of your prostate.

Always remember that a urologist is a surgeon. Most of they time, they will recommend surgery. This isn't a bad thing, it's his area of expertise. We would always recommend also visiting one--or more--radiation oncologists to talk about the radiation options in your case. If you don't know where to go, it's always good to start at one of the major cancer centers. Give them a call and ask to be set up for a case review and consult with the radiation team.

Don't take advice on radiation from a urologist. Really.

We;re here to support you. We've all been there and done that. You've got every chance to be considered cured sometime in the future. I between, keep reaching out, we're here.
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Mumbo
Veteran Member
Joined : Nov 2018
Posts : 2848
Posted 11/12/2024 2:25 PM (GMT -5)
Hello Fozz, sorry you have to be here.

I will take a stab at this so first things first. I would consider getting a second opinion on the biopsy pathology to be sure of exactly what was reported. Johns Hopkins is well known for this service but other respected pathology groups can perform this also.

https://pathology.jhu.edu/patient-care/second-opinions

Would also suggest getting an opinion from a NIH designated cancer center.

https://www.cancer.gov/research/infrastructure/cancer-centers/find

MRI and Biopsy Discrepancies - Everything possible has happened. I started with a G7(4+3) from biopsy and ended up at G9(4+5) after surgery. Some men have had a number of negative biopsies before finally finding a small tumor with high risk G9 pathology.

PET Scan Insights - PSMA PET scan may or may not find out more. The PSMA PET scan is like the MRI in some ways in that it can not determine a Gleason score, only microscopic analysis of the cells can do that.

Decision Between Surgery and Radiation - These decisions become quite personal and you will have no end of radiation recommendations for a myriad of methods. Get the PET scan and second opinions done then wade into that decision. The urologist will recommend surgery as that is what he/she does. The radiation oncologist will recommend RT, duh! A decision for another day.

Experiences with Prostatitis and Cancer Together: No comment, never had together.

TRT and PSA Levels: No experience

Encouragement or Advice: Define favorable, treatment will probably be successful and you will die from something else. G7(4+3) means treatment is not optional but leaves most options available to you.

My concise signature highlights my journey. 72 now and the details are just a nightmare I prefer to forget about which the six month PSA testing reminds me of.
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Fozzworth
New Member
Joined : Nov 2024
Posts : 5
Posted 11/12/2024 8:24 PM (GMT -5)
Thanks for your time and the valuable insight!
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mattam
Veteran Member
Joined : Aug 2015
Posts : 4417
Posted 11/12/2024 10:42 PM (GMT -5)
Fozzworth,
Man, I was thinking you are young to be diagnosed with PCa, but then remembered I was only 54 when I was diagnosed. Nine years have gone by since then. It’s a really good thing that you apparently have been keeping up with PCa screenings. The powers that be mostly discourage that these days.

I don’t have much to add that hasn’t been said. That G7 core that’s at 90% niggles at me a little bit, but as stated, it may not have much meaning. Out of curiosity did the Uro/Surgeon give you the spiel about doing surgery first, and then having radiation as a backup? Well, that’s kind of a trick of the trade PCa surgeons like to use when selling their services. It’s quite true, but for many reasons it doesn’t add up as well as it might seem. Also, you seem like a very diligent guy, please don’t get sucked into surgery because you just want to get it done. The Forum probably leans to radiation, and with good reason. There is so much that can go catastrophically wrong with surgery.

As said before, you would be very wise to get a second opinion on your biopsy slides.

I see no reason you won’t have a good outcome.

Good luck!
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jmadrid
Regular Member
Joined : Sep 2017
Posts : 456
Posted 11/13/2024 6:26 AM (GMT -5)
I got a PIRADS 5 followed by a Gleason 6 biopsy, followed by a Gleason 8, 5+3, in the path report after surgery. Seven years later I maintain low PSA figures. I wonder which result was right. You cannot always expect consistency in the different prostate cancer tests.
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trailguy
Veteran Member
Joined : Jul 2015
Posts : 950
Posted 11/13/2024 7:53 AM (GMT -5)
Greetings.

I am more paranoid than most here, but feel I should add my bit. IMHO, if they found G7 (4+3) there are likely some G5's that got missed and are rearing to go somewhere to do something you won't like much.

I initially got surgery + Luprolide chemo (Firmagon, then Lupron for 2 & 1/2 years) + radiation (72Gy) for my bouncing baby G7(3 + 4). All of that failed to get rid of the PCa. I then got put back on Luprolide chemo (Eligard) + Enzalutamide chemo (Xtandi) for 18 months. My (initial) team said no more surgery no more radiation, so I got a new team when the enzalutamide (temporarily) crippled me (in addition to several other pretty nasty side effects).

I then got 'ORIOLE' type radiation (another 106 Gy, 3&1/2 years ago). PSA is back up, just got a Gallium 68 PSMA PET scan last Friday, waiting for the photos. Yeah, surgery has some unpleasant side effects that you may or may not initially avoid with radiation. So does the Luprolide chemo. I am glad that I concentrated on the cancer and just tolerate the side effects.
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Mumbo
Veteran Member
Joined : Nov 2018
Posts : 2848
Posted 11/13/2024 11:27 AM (GMT -5)
ps: Ask your Urologist about getting a genomic test on the biopsy cancer. RNA testing by Decipher and others gives you an independent evaluation of the cancer to help predict risk.
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Sr Sailor
Veteran Member
Joined : Sep 2015
Posts : 1572
Posted 11/13/2024 2:29 PM (GMT -5)
Such excellent responses!
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Fozzworth
New Member
Joined : Nov 2024
Posts : 5
Posted 11/13/2024 5:59 PM (GMT -5)
0.4

Mumbo said...
ps: Ask your Urologist about getting a genomic test on the biopsy cancer. RNA testing by Decipher and others gives you an independent evaluation of the cancer to help predict risk.

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ntzguy
Regular Member
Joined : Dec 2015
Posts : 98
Posted 11/14/2024 5:19 AM (GMT -5)
All good advice. My 2 cents, find a Cancer treatment facility that is a “Center of Excellence “. This where you find a “Team “ that can help guide you through this. Tell the group what area of the country you live in and they will help you find the best center near you , you deserve the best treatment available.

The NCI has a ranking of The Centers of Excellence

Hoping the best outcome for you
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hrpufnstuf
Veteran Member
Joined : Mar 2012
Posts : 644
Posted 11/14/2024 9:24 AM (GMT -5)
Fozzworth,
A Gleason 4+3 is an unfavorable intermediate. If you decide to go the radiation route, your RO will likely recommend a short course of ADT before, during, and after treatment. Depending on how adverse you are to that will likely influence your decision to have surgery or radiation. As you can see from my profile I had radiation 10 years ago and now have a relapse. My recent biopsy revealed a single Gleason 4+3. I too have chronic prostatitis and all through the years leading up to my confirmed failure I had PSA that was higher than I thought it should be but it was thought that my prostatitis made it difficult to get a true PSA number.
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