Old Mike maybe you can post that pollen protease paper again - I don't know how you made the link so small.
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OM says: “What bothers me is that non allergic people also have their nasal mucus breached but their immune response does not cause allergies.?”
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I'm going to respond to this question a lot different than what I normally would.
This question is getting to me... Consuming.. I can only think of one way to yield some kind of decent answer.
1) I would say let's track down the author and ask that question directly to them.
2) Pure Speculative Answer - My gut says this answers or highlights the fundamental problem with the immune system side of things - or hyper active Adaptive Immune Response BUT in realty and more logically thinking I think what's going to flush out it of all this in regards to IBD not pollen allergy is there is perhaps a fundamental problem in the "communication" between the Innate and Adaptive Immune response... Like there is a blockage in communication between them. As if a communication piece has all of a sudden gone missing and we're locked into a long term hyperactive adaptive response state. Let this thought sit with you for a bit... chew on it a little. Again, that's a quick off the top of the head thing.. talking out loud again..
3) Since the "why me, not them has been asked before" but this time there's actually some solid context behind it... Like for the very first time. Maybe let's use this opportunity to go in a different direction altogether and pick it apart, dissect the question into further questions that we can all look into and learn from and perhaps flush out a clue:
i) What are the major differences between the Nasal epithelial/mucus barriers and Colon epithelial/mucus barriers?
ii) In the paper it speaks of the protease breaking down the mucus in all groups. It did not test for anti-protease activity prevalence for all three, I would assume because the mucus was initially broken down in all three anyway so there is no point and suggesting no real difference. However it does go on to suggest that anti-proteases would be a good therapy for those with pollen allergy to maintain the mucus barrier.. so back to the cover it over with a band-aid approach. This makes sense for us to do as well in regards to IBD or at least Ulcerative Colitis specifically. Again I fall into the Crohns-Colitis category that to this day I can't figure out what approach I should take... or what the heck it even is... Drives me nuts. But should we not look into anti-proteases and see if there is something we could apply for protective measures?
iii) I could not post the new protease paper as I only had it in PDF, but it looks like proteases are also used in Immune Cell Modulation and as Antimicrobial Agents. So this is interesting when taken in the context of the study. Are there now two classifications of proteases? Cellular and Mucosal? And if so what role would these play in IBD?
iv) Thinking about
this brought about
one glaring thought here - The bacteria issue! The nose is full of them, just like the colon. I can only find that there was mucus breakdown demonstrated... not full mucus breach... This is important to find out. Maybe I misread but I have looked a few times now and can't find it. What would happen if there was full mucus breach in the nose? Would there be an immune response with ulcers/pus just like in IBD?
v) This brings about
another important thought and a flurry of important questions - If there is no real difference in the properties of colon mucus and nasal mucus (saliomcus and sulfurmucus) then even a major breakdown over long period of time should eventually let some bacteria eventually penetrate in long term, severe pollen allergy sufferers. Or I would think. Perhaps not though. But I think it should if it got thin enough and over a long enough time. Maybe there is some information on severe pollen allergy cases developing yellowy, thick, puss type snot? Or maybe not? and this is where the flurry of questions comes up:
a) What is the difference in bacteria between the nose and the colon?
textbookofbacteriology.net/normalflora.htmlb) obviously it aerobic vs anaeobic bacteria.
c) If bacteria can still penetrate in severe pollen allergy then why not the severe ulcerative response like in IBD?
d) Is this not exactly why we have such a high tolerance for aerobic bacteria? Because they are so prevalent in the nose, mouth, and small intestine and regularly make some contact here and there?
e) Pointing to the "culprit" in our case being Aneorobic bacteria contact with the epithelial cells being directly responsible for the ulcers? Or the intense immune response to them being responsible more correctly? And the real reason for the extra thick mucus in the distal colon - anaerobic bacteria?
f) Could the severity of the immune response (and ultimately our disease) be correlated to the types/area and number of anerobic bacteria coming into contact?
g) And the more types or strains coming in contact the worse the response type of thing?
d) would this not support the issue of probiotics and that some give us trouble and some don't but the main mode of positive effects is simply displacing the anaerobic bacteria? Yet still causing slight aggravated symptoms or immune response in some cases cause their not really commensals so they still generate a slight immune response - but very low because they're mainly aerobic?
e) Would this not offer up an partial explain for varying FT results? And the trouble some severe IBD people seem to have with further aggravation? It just introduces further anaerobic bacteria in people with full mucus breach? But perhaps in those who have slightly recovered or have recently taken antibiotics that target anaerobic bacteria would have positive results?
f) would this not further support the thick mucus and overgrowth of aerobic bacteria in Crohns idea?
vi) Would finding answers to these questions not just further support the need to figure out what the heck is breaking down our mucus in the first place? Or changing the mucus properties at the very least?
vii) But all this would still leave the darn "why me and not them question unanswered!"... So I got to reading the paper yet again tonight. And one thing stood out this time around:
The control group with the plugs... What the heck was this about
? Or what was the purpose of this group? And what are these plugs. Turns out they are to block the influence of the tear ducts...
And it turns out there is another short paper that stems from this one.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3716620/#!po=100.0004) So when reading this paper this jumps out in the conclusion:
"Tear fluid proteome is significantly different between allergics and healthy controls, significantly elevated proteins in allergics reflect exposure to exogenic noxa trough peroxidise activity and pathological condition of tissue." ... yeah say what??? Talk about
greek to me! yeesh... So I googled proteome.
And this brings up two more questions:
1) Do we have something similar in our colons or that serve function similar to what the tear ducts do to nasal mucus? So some sort of organ somewhere?
2) Is the heart of this whole IBD problem perhaps significantly elevated proteins from this mystery organ?
And finally just for $its and giggles I googled the role or proteome in allergies and whamo... I land back in a ton of information on this... maybe we are having some sort of allergic reaction to something... and all of the other stuff like the immune cascade, bacteria penetration and dysbiosis are all a result of this - or secondary to the main problem?
Maybe we can all look into trying to answer each of these questions and see what comes about
?
Post Edited (Canada Mark) : 10/7/2013 2:59:00 AM (GMT-6)