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Gut bacteria shift quickly after changes in diet, study shows

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Posted 12/11/2013 6:16 PM (GMT -5)
Another FYI:

Old Mike

http://medicalxpress.com/news/2013-12-gut-bacteria-shift-quickly-diet.html

Posted 12/11/2013 6:41 PM (GMT -5)
kinda throws a big pot hole in the road to "eating right for your gut" - or whatever the book was called -

huh ?
Posted 12/11/2013 8:05 PM (GMT -5)
Breaking the vicious cycle?
Posted 12/11/2013 10:51 PM (GMT -5)
Hello, just joined healing well. I am a RN with a 16 year old daughter with left-sided colitis. I read the book, "Breaking the Vicious Cycle". I had my daughter follow the SCD (Specific Carbohydrate Diet), for a week, and to my surprise, it worked. Then came Halloween. While on SCD, she had no left-side colon pain, no bubble guts, no bloody stools, no nausea, and minimum back pain and joint pain. As soon as she had sugar, her symptoms returned. She currently is in a flare. Started 150mg Imuran on 12/2 and started 20mg prednisone twice a day.

Due to cluster of holidays and being out of town, she was unable to follow the SCD diet.

Over the past couple of years, I have asked her GI doctor about any special diet or foods that would make her condition better or worse. He had me meet with GI Dietitian, and I was advised to have her follow regular diet.

During her last GI appointment (Nov, 2013), I informed doctor of trial run with SCD diet with good results. Again to my surprise, the doctor said he has several patients that are on SCD diet and off of all meds. He added that according to all the lab and stool tests, her body does not break down lactose nor other disaccharides or polysaccharides. So he gave my daughter the option of going on diet with goal of getting off of meds. My daughter opted to start at a later date due to upcoming holidays and being out of town. But in the interim, she started meds to get through this flare and the holidays.

I was upset that the doctor did not inform us about this option sooner. I even took her to naturalist doctor for $350 cash (not covered by insurance) and was not informed. And, to top that, I am a RN and work in Endoscopy/GI department and none of my GI doctors informed me about SCD diet. After praying and searching the internet, I came across this wonderful diet.

I will explain in detail how and why it works in another post if anyone is interested.
Posted 12/12/2013 8:41 AM (GMT -5)
Interesting. I read another article today which was loosely based on this article but was actually quite different. Check out this link:

http://www.news.yahoo.com/diet-quickly-alters-gut-bacteria-195206600.html

Interesting that it tries claiming that an animal diet has been linked to inflammatory bowel diseases. I wonder how they would explain that several people with UC who switch to the paleo diet get better?
Posted 12/12/2013 7:51 PM (GMT -5)
Thanks for the link, OM

I wonder how they would explain that several people with UC who switch to the paleo diet get better?

There are so many variables. One possibility could be it is the omega-3 vs omega-6 ratios affected by grain-fed vs grass-fed beef.
Posted 12/14/2013 1:29 PM (GMT -5)

garylouisville said...
Interesting. I read another article today which was loosely based on this article but was actually quite different. Check out this link:

http://www.news.yahoo.com/diet-quickly-alters-gut-bacteria-195206600.html

Interesting that it tries claiming that an animal diet has been linked to inflammatory bowel diseases. I wonder how they would explain that several people with UC who switch to the paleo diet get better?

I smell B.S. here.

I always do FANTASTIC on salmon,steak,burger,chicken.

Recently got 80 drumsticks from Whole foods catering time to re-order now. That and their meatballs and I got great results along with my supplement and maintenance med regime.

This study was milk on mice.....I am not buying it.

Suspicicous Milk on Mice Study said...

Here we show that consumption of a diet high in saturated (milk-derived) fat, but not polyunsaturated (safflower oil) fat, changes the conditions for microbial assemblage and promotes the expansion of a low-abundance, sulphite-reducing pathobiont, Bilophila wadsworthia2. This was associated with a pro-inflammatory T helper type 1 (TH1) immune response and increased incidence of colitis in genetically susceptible Il10−/−, but not wild-type mice. These effects are mediated by milk-derived-fat-promoted taurine conjugation of hepatic bile acids, which increases the availability of organic sulphur used by sulphite-reducing microorganisms like B. wadsworthia. When mice were fed a low-fat diet supplemented with taurocholic acid, but not with glycocholic acid, for example, a bloom of B. wadsworthia and development of colitis were observed in Il10−/− mice. Together these data show that dietary fats, by promoting changes in host bile acid composition, can markedly alter conditions for gut microbial assemblage, resulting in dysbiosis that can perturb immune homeostasis. The data provide a plausible mechanistic basis by which Western-type diets high in certain saturated fats might increase the prevalence of complex immune-mediated diseases like inflammatory bowel disease in genetically susceptible hosts.

Well I can accept milk-only as I dont drink milk and dont do well on kefir so no kefir no yogurt but as far as extending that result to the list of meats that work for me ?

Who am I going to believe my own experience or some mouse study ?
Posted 12/14/2013 3:13 PM (GMT -5)
I totally agree with you aguywithuc.

Commercial milk is not even the real deal besides, it's heated up destroying important enzymes, all separated in some crazy way and put back together.

These studies are so useless it seems, and dangerous in the conclusions they make and then recommendations for diet.

Mankind evolved for a long time eating a lot of saturated fat.

It seems a lot more likely that the low fat diet which has been pushed for several decades is more likely to be culpable in the increase of dis-ease in the western population
Posted 12/14/2013 5:10 PM (GMT -5)
Actually most diseases of modern man correlate pretty darn well to the low-fat, high carb diet. The incidence of diabetes and metabolic disorders is about 1 in 3 now, which is insanity. The small amount of fat in these diets come from poly unsaturated fats like corn and soybean oil. These oils are ridiculously high in omega6, where high amounts correlate well to autoimmune conditions.

There's also a dichotomy between factory farmed meat and meat raised on pasture. The former is carcinogenic by virtue of the ingredients and additives used to "sanitize" the meat, and also devoid of any nutrition, while the latter (pasture meat) suits the nutritional requirements of the human body perfectly. I reckon most studies used the cheapest and ubiquitous forms of meat available, which are all obviously factory farmed.

Also, commercial dairy is almost always crap as Lodi mentioned. There are some good brands like stoneyfield and organic valley, but that's it. You aren't getting good dairy unless from animals on pasture. Raw milk, raw butter, raw cream and kefir are exceptional foods for healing the gut lining.
Posted 12/16/2013 2:33 AM (GMT -5)
This link is interesting OldMike - i didnt know the bacteria composition can change THAT quickly. I wonder if a drastic change in diet could somehow change the gut bacteria compostion and improve things for ppl suffering? For example, I am a vegetarian. What if I changed to a meat diet? Or if a meat eater changed to a vegetarian diet? Just to change the bacterial composition and hope it alters gene expression and tames the inflammation?

Thoughts anyone?
Posted 12/16/2013 9:38 AM (GMT -5)
I think that is very possible. There are many here who altered their diets and found improvement. The trouble is, everyone is different so sometimes it is hard to figure out which diet to try. Sometimes diet changes do absolutely nothing. I have noticed a few on here who went from vegetarian to paleo and found improvement. In most cases though, I wouldn't expect any diet change to be a cure.
Posted 12/16/2013 9:56 AM (GMT -5)
interesting, but this study was done on 10 people. That is a pretty low #. I am a vegetarian- and was for almost 20 years before getting UC, and I am also lactose intolerant, so wasn't consuming a lot of dairy other than a tad of half n half on occasion. There was a time when I was very anemic so I went and got some pasture raised, antibiotic free beef from our local animal science program at the university, and ate a little chunk of it (1/4 size of deck of playing cards) every day for about 2 weeks. I did not get better or worse. I noticed no changes so just went back to eating the way I had been.
Posted 12/16/2013 10:36 AM (GMT -5)

MossPiglet said...
interesting, but this study was done on 10 people. That is a pretty low #. I am a vegetarian- and was for almost 20 years before getting UC, and I am also lactose intolerant, so wasn't consuming a lot of dairy other than a tad of half n half on occasion. There was a time when I was very anemic so I went and got some pasture raised, antibiotic free beef from our local animal science program at the university, and ate a little chunk of it (1/4 size of deck of playing cards) every day for about 2 weeks. I did not get better or worse. I noticed no changes so just went back to eating the way I had been.

I don't know how you survived 20 years as a vegetarian. That's pretty amazing when you think about it. I tried going vegan for 2 months after buying into Neal Barnard's vegan propaganda and my adrenal glands started slowly shutting down. I'm sure stress played a huge role as well.

After testing, I was deficient in the following nutrients: b12, vit D, folate, iron, magnesium, cholesterol, and a bunch of other things that put me at high risk for suicide and other diseases.
Posted 12/16/2013 10:48 AM (GMT -5)
Well vegan and veg are quite different... I was a vegan for a year. Really opened my eyes to what I was putting in my body. But I did not think it was the healthiest diet and went back to just vegetarian. Was vegetarian for years with no issues. You just have to eat a varied diet and usually take a b12 supp.

Now with my UC I miss veggies so much! Cant wait to get out of this flare so i can try to sneak some back in my life!
Posted 12/16/2013 10:57 AM (GMT -5)

embersglow1 said...
Well vegan and veg are quite different... I was a vegan for a year. Really opened my eyes to what I was putting in my body. But I did not think it was the healthiest diet and went back to just vegetarian. Was vegetarian for years with no issues. You just have to eat a varied diet and usually take a b12 supp.

Now with my UC I miss veggies so much! Cant wait to get out of this flare so i can try to sneak some back in my life!

I agree. Vegan is not very sustainable. An Ovo-lacto vegetarian (eggs and dairy included) is probably the best way to avoid nutritional issues.
Posted 12/16/2013 12:08 PM (GMT -5)
The question I have for those who are/were vegetarians/vegan.
How much resistant starch do you think you ate, or are eating.
High fiber/veggie diet is not necessarily a high RS diet.

Thanks
Old Mike
Posted 12/16/2013 2:30 PM (GMT -5)
I eat a lot of beans (all kinds), lentils, potatoes, yams (LOVE yams), bananas, squash, eggplant, turnips, figs (I have a fig tree!) beets, nopales, nuts, grains etc I have a CSA share and get lots of variety of organic local veggies and fruits.
I think I was/am getting a fair amount of resistant starch. I was not on antibiotics prior to getting sick nor had I been on them much during my life. Always been a mystery where UC came from as no history in my family either. Every so often I eat some fish and had a little turkey (antibiotic free, pasture raised) on turkey day.
Posted 12/16/2013 3:17 PM (GMT -5)
Thanks Moss, I was hoping that RS is some form of missing key to UC, it may yet be for some of us.
Been scratching my head for years on why vegetarians get UC,unless it really has not much to do with diet,which I also find hard to believe.
Still could be something like excessive nitrates,fruit sugar.
Old Mike

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 12/16/2013 2:29:47 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 12/16/2013 3:42 PM (GMT -5)
The reason vegetarians or vegans get UC is because, for the most part, diet doesn't have anything to do with coming down with UC. UC is an autoimmune disease where, for some unkown reason, your body starts making antibodies to a certain thing. I had a previous autoimmune disease called ITP, where your body is tricked into making antibodies to kill off it's own platelets in the blood. With UC your body is tricked into making antibodies to attack either the colon itself or something in the colon. This could be just about anything, including mucus or one of more of the bacterias in your colon, good or bad or maybe both.

There are several theories as to the cause of this immune system malfunction but so far they are only theories. One theory is that you can catch a virus of some kind and part of the DNA or Protein structure of the virus closely resembles part of the DNA or protein structure of something in your body, such as platelets in the blood or the lining of your colon, or one or more of the bacteria in your colon, or nerves in regard to autoimmune diseases that attack the body's nerves. When your body begins manufacturing these antibodies to kill off the virus it gets confused with these DNA's or Protein structures and attacks not only the virus but, in the case of UC, your colon as well (or something in your colon). Scientists pretty much know this is the case because that's why treatments that weaken the immune system work at controlling our disease and once you stop those treatments your body resumes the attack.

Now it is possible that inherited genetics or mutations caused by poor diet may be part of the mix in helping this malfunction come about in the first place. It is also possible that if the whole thing comes about because of a microbial imbalance (due to your body attacking let's say "good" bacteria in your colon then altering your diet to some extent could improve your situation but is unlikely to "cure" you of this immune system malfunction.
Posted 12/16/2013 4:44 PM (GMT -5)
Well the body could of course be attacking a molecular mimic,where the immune system
believes it is attacking a pathogen. I also believe that UC is environmental, and that it is a disease
of the 20th century for the most part.
The fact that a very few,can go into remission simply from colonic lavage, or FT to me indicates that
the immune system is attacking something in the gut,whether it is confused I don't know, but it would
seem to indicate that what ever it is it can be washed out,killed off by FT,or controlled by replacement
of non dysbioitic bacteria,in some cases.
So what might look like autoimmunity,perhaps not.
Many times immigrants move from East to West and they come down with UC or some other so called
autoimmune disease,I find this very strange.
Old Mike
Posted 12/16/2013 6:03 PM (GMT -5)
I think migrants hold the key to understanding the role of pathogens, food, agriculture and chemical exposure in the causal chain. We all know the headline story about taking on the prevalence rates of the host country, but do we know anything about returners? Those who work for 5 years in the west before going back home? Those with family here who are annual short-term visitors? There must be incidence patterns we could learn more from...
Posted 12/16/2013 8:12 PM (GMT -5)
OM -"Well the body could of course be attacking a molecular mimic,where the immune system
believes it is attacking a pathogen. I also believe that UC is environmental, and that it is a disease
of the 20th century for the most part."

----

It's funny in a way cause this get's down to the whole genetic Ceiliac thing. So the "molecular mimicry" would be a change in HLA genes. For Celiac there are people that have ummm, let's call them mutations in this gene,yet they don't present any symptoms. Some remove gluten, and yet still get worse or continue down the disease path, some remove gluten and live fine as long as they stay away from it. It's said that in "Celiac" people their immune system is responding to Gliadin (which is a segment of Gluten Protein), so the body mistakes this segment of a common "wheat protein" and assumes it's a bacteria, virus or toxin and mounts an immune response to it. So a case of "molecular mimicry". The genes are HLA-DQA1 and HLA-DQB1.

Alternate expressions of these genes are also present in people with Crohn's and UC. They refer to them as "alleles" and they seem to be found to be different between IBD diseases with some minor commonality but generally present in all people with IBD.

Sooooo.. one could look at this and say it's an immune systems problem where the immune systems (or cells) are "seeing" protein fragments presented, binding to them and this brings on an immune response... UC could be one or more allele's of these genes, same with crohn's etc etc.. But I still say it's equally possible that the immune system could be responding to actual bacteria. Not mistaken protein fragment. Or there's lot's of other takes.

One question comes to mind though - based on that last part of what you said, is what change could have occurred in the environment over the last 100+ years or so that is causing changes in expression of these genes. Pesticide use comes to mind obviously - but here we land smack in that full circle thing that's driving everyone nuts.

Alterations or "expressions" in the genes tie into other autoimmune diseases as well. I have a friend just diagnosed the other day with Celiac and a niece with severe IBD...

It's not adding up no matter which way you look at it. I tend to agree with OM and I actually think they really all are bacterial issues. Or a chemical(s) in the environment is changing or interfering with how our bodies normally deal with and recognize bacteria.
Posted 12/16/2013 8:36 PM (GMT -5)
Or a reduction in a certain population in bacteria or "protective" bacteria that normally ferment and break down these proteins could be allowing these protein fragments through when normally they would not which is causing an immune response. Ugg... to many options. But this would be the dysbiosis thing.

There is that very recent paper on fermenting "protective" bacteria deep in the intestinal crypts that came out a month or two ago. Maybe something will come of that. I found that to be quite intriguing. They were found in mice colons and human I believe. Whereas before it was thought no bacteria should be there.
Posted 12/16/2013 8:40 PM (GMT -5)
I ate tons RS as a vegan, beans or lentils nearly every day and lots of potatoes as well.
I am pretty sure my UC was "turned on" after a course of antibiotics.
Posted 12/16/2013 9:21 PM (GMT -5)
Yea Mark we can go around in circles all day,and we have, what is causing what when,how and where.
What they are now finding out is that disrupted gut bacteria are causing all kinds of disease problems,from cancer to kidney disease. Besides looking at the western/USA gut microbiome,
they better start to look at people from other countries, with low IBD incidence. I tend to believe that
what looks normal in the USA is really dysbiotic compared to what it really should look like.

Momto:
Not sure if we are going to find much info on migrants that have returned to their home country.
Many believe there UC started after antibiotics.
But in say Vietnam antibiotics are OTC, and used like candy,I have some thread on that, yet
not a high UC incidence. So perhaps with a different than a western diet/lifestyle you can get away
with high antibiotic use,or is it just eat more dirt.
Old Mike
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