Radical Induction Theory-Time to re-visit

Old Mike said...
Tunnel: Wrote the biofilm stuff,before I was really excited about RIT.
At the time I was puzzling over Swidniski's comment.
I was looking for as to why the mucus barrier was impaired.
I found my answer in Pravdas work.
OM

my bad, I didn't check the date on that thread haha. I was like, "you should know this!"

FSLondon said...
I've been taking 300 a day. Not sure if it's helping. Sometimes I think it is but improvement hasn't been linear or swift.

Also, FSLondon, if I recall, you are already pretty close to full remission? I think it would be harder to notice if anything has really changed.

Additionally, lots of UC symptoms like diarrhea and urgency come from the distal/left sided areas of the colon, so if you have medicines/butyrate focused on that area, you might notice some more improvement.

Post Edited (Tunnelvisionary) : 6/14/2015 1:44:48 PM (GMT-6)

Ah, interesting. Has your doc ever considered Crohn's for you? Just curious.

Regardless, the left side of the colon is generally harder to reach for oral meds/supplements. Stuff like ALA will affect the whole body, but oral butyrate and 5 asa's do not act as strongly on the left side/sigmoid, if they reach them. So if you do not notice very much improvement at all, then enema treatment with both butyrate and anti inflammatories might help.

I think it would be a conversation worth having with your doc. Rectal sparing and inflammation beginning in the transverse colon would seem to make it worth checking out.

GI docs will generally take biopsies of just the lining of the colon, so from what I understand, if you had the transmural inflammation characteristic of Crohn's, then a biopsy wouldn't have picked that up. However, I think there are other aspects of the biopsy that should help differentiate the two, I think.

Regarding the enemas, then yeah, rectal meds would be no help for inflammation up there, but the good news is that oral meds/supplements should reach that area just fine.

@xyz - I still can't remember. It was long ago lol. Multiple years of D and pain sure get to you after a while.

If you want, please send me an email (click on my name) - I'm going to give you access to two articles you should read. I think you might like them. Or at least find them of interest. They are very, very detailed and well written. One is from a general writer and the other is from a molecular biologist. I can only share them this way though with you.

And yes - I posted the link and copied an email because people were asking where to get tested. It's one of the biggest stumbling blocks and many people are just doing the triple antibiotics without being tested first. Heck I even called the lab owner and asked him to send an email about about any other labs he knew of to simply help people. He was kind enough to do that. - Then a site admin named "Jennifer" wrote me to say it violated the rules as it was a link to a paid service.

She then went on to say that the link and MAP information provides false and misleading information to people with Crohn's disease and gives them false hope while they are in a venerable state or something to that effect. Or plays on their emotions.. I forget exactly.

Obviously someone has a hard time with this MAP stuff. At some point soon they are going to have to come to grips with it and that in many cases it may turn out to play a role, be it passive or aggressive. Who knows, but time will tell.

I pointed out that this was purely her "opinion" and she did not like that. That led to a ban, haha. What can ya do. Some people are just stuck on the autoimmune thing. I mean, heck, even I still wonder as maybe there are two sides to it - does not mean one should completely dismiss one thing or another. Does not matter anyway.

Breaking the Vicious Cycle is a link to a paid service to be technical. Links to Promethius labs is a parallel to a paid lab service...

Thanks everyone. This is a such a useful thread and everyone's input is really helpful and very appreciated.   

xy123, as you say, arthiritis is quite challenging and has much stronger mood impact.  Off to go tinker with my protein intake to see if that helps.  Will keep everyone posted on the effects of ALA/butyrate. Might need to chat with my GI about crohns....

Edited:

OM, have you seen this?

http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Rk_Rao2/publication/5341709_Oxidative_stress-induced_disruption_of_epithelial_and_endothelial_tight_junctions/links/5509db1e0cf26198a639cda1.pdf

Oxidative stress and zonulin pathways.  I think Fasano thinks the zonulin pathway is key for more than than just celiac.  Perhaps all roads lead back to too much peroxide.

Post Edited (FSLondon) : 6/15/2015 5:47:58 AM (GMT-6)

FSLondon said...

arthiritis is quite challenging and has much stronger mood impact.

Did you try PABA ? Miracle for my bone on bone arthritis. Studies back it up.

FSLondon said...
I have not tried PABA. Is that the same thing that used to be in sunscreen? Will check it out. Thanks.

Surprisingly yes it is the same thing. It has many actions within the body as well such as helping with anemia and osteoarthritis inflammation. I took it because post prednisone taper down I needed energy. Then I noticed I could use my thumb again. This could mean I can cancel surgery for it if things continue to go well.

PABA (Para-AminoBenzoic Acid) "Unofficial B-Vitamin" (By James Adams Ph.D.)

Benefits:

1) PABA is required to synthesize folic acid in gastrointestinal tract
2) Can counteract stomach distress for people allergic to gluten.
3) PABA is normally made by the flora in the gastrointestinal tract,
so people with gastrointestinal problems might need supplements.
4) As a coenzyme, PABA functions in the breakdown and utilization of
proteins and in the formation of red blood cells.
* 5) PABA enhances the hormone cortisol.


This was very interesting :

www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=38&m=3425737


PABA may play a role in reducing fatigue, limiting the effects of depression (which can be brought on by a PABA deficiency) and reducing the inflammatory effects associated with osteoarthritis, a condition that can be quite painful and debilitating.

The PABA vitamin offers several benefits that can be hardly found in other nutrients. First and foremost, it is considered an antioxidant so that they can mop up free radicals that can potentially cause cumulate cell damage and hasten aging. It has also been found to play a major role in limiting depression (which can result from PABA deficiency), reducing fatigue, and reducing inflammatory effects that are related to osteoarthritis (which can be painful and debilitating).

www.nutritional-supplements-health-guide.com/paba-vitamin.html

FSLondon said...
thanks. How much are you taking and how frequently?

I was taking 500mg because that was the only size pill I could get locally. I just received 5 bottles of 100mg for about 25 bucks. Freeda brand.

I am taking 5 or more of these because I just changed my meds/supps/diet from top to bottom and having no issues so taking more as I feel the need for energy.

OM,

Since the theory rests on oxidative stress what about incorporating this into the protocol ?

www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=38&m=3431850

Ok found the chronic wound paper,took me long enough.

The indicate that vitamin E or NAC work just about as well as both together.

OM

http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jdr/2014/562625/

You really have to watch yourself when looking at scientific studies, ok the biofilm dissolved.

I wonder if they know that NAC dissolves biofilms.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20707288

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC169071/

The paper also set me off to look again at Swidsinski's biofilms, for IBD and they are composed

of a lot of B. Fragilis, which is a strict anaerobe. So what the hell are they doing there is there is a lot of ROS.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16000463

But but but, see this.

Of course by now you have guessed that, gee they are not quite as strict as once thought.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v427/n6973/abs/nature02285.html

Here is the oxygen hyp again

http://www.nature.com/ismej/journal/v7/n7/full/ismej201380a.html

Between Swidsinski and Pravada something has to give.

back to niacin for a minute,butyrate also activates this gene

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17430113

back to inos

http://gut.bmj.com/content/42/2/152.full

I probably have this elsewhere but

looks like curcumin and grape seed extract will inhibit inos.

http://www.life-enhancement.com/magazine/article/2548-inhibition-of-inducible-nitric-oxide-synthase-reverses-tobacco-smoke--induced-emphysema-in-mice

gse differential effects- in some cases can make things worse

LINK

ethanol oral tolerance inf gamma glutathione

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S0100-879X2003000900013&script=sci_arttext

 

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 7/1/2015 4:49:38 AM (GMT-6)

I am too scared to add NAC to my compounded enemas, i think i'll bring up the subject with my GI next meeting and see what he thinks of it.

I still need to work through this thread but a reminder to be careful about vitamin E, genetics seem to highly influence the inflammatory response
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22572643/

Chicken soup should be a great NAC source I think?..but this study I came across suggests NAC increases gut permeability, in rats at least?
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20220565
Exposure of the normal intestine to NAC, but not saline or proteases, led to increased gut permeability, loss of mucus hydrophobicity, a decrease in the mucus layer, as well as morphological evidence of villous injury. Although proteases themselves did not cause gut injury, the combination of pancreatic proteases with NAC caused more severe injury than NAC alone, suggesting that once the mucus barrier is impaired, luminal proteases can injure the now vulnerable gut.

I was wondering, would drinking boiled water reduce the amount of oxygen reaching the colon or is it irrelevant when ingested?

I know that boiled water has less dissolved oxygen in it, it's the sort of thing that gets discussed when you live in a country for whom the perfect cup of tea is important