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If on Paleo you still need carbs

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Posted 8/21/2012 1:20 PM (GMT -5)
It would seem you still need to feed the colon cells with butyrate,if you dont eat many carbs butyrate production goes down.

Coconut oil also produces butyrate.

Old Mike

http://aem.asm.org/content/73/4/1073.abstract

More info good read,you can download the pdf.

http://www.foodandnutritionresearch.net/index.php/fnr/article/view/1801

 

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 8/21/2012 7:26:45 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 8/21/2012 1:33 PM (GMT -5)
I love carbs and carbs love me.
Posted 8/21/2012 1:50 PM (GMT -5)
Mike,

Interesting. Thanks for posting.

I don't do carbs. But I eat butter.

And make sure to add D-Ribose in my daily shake.

Would that count?

Posted 8/21/2012 1:57 PM (GMT -5)
i get all my carbs from vegetables and fruits. pretty simple. don't need the evil grains now anyways!
Posted 8/21/2012 1:57 PM (GMT -5)
Dont think so. For paleo what I mean by carbs is veggies,not
wheat.
The bacteria produce butyrate from undigested carb residue,if you still have the correct bacteria,which in the case of UC might be a
question.

There also may be other metabolic pathways to get butyrate,ketogenic perhaps all meat low carb not sure on that,and medium chain fats from coconut produce beta hydroxy butyrate.
Old Mike

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 8/21/2012 1:12:38 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 8/21/2012 2:39 PM (GMT -5)
Your brain and body also need carbs for fuel and functioning. If carbs aren't available, they'll head for the other organs.
That process happens actually faster than one may think.

q
Posted 8/21/2012 4:13 PM (GMT -5)
Totally agree that carbs are essential. While on GAPS (v-similar to Paleo) even with a large anmount of veg and pumpkin I became carb deficient and lost a lot of weight. It's a difficult balance to get right. While i believe SCD/GAPS/Paleo is a good path to take it is crucial to monitor your weight loss and alarm bells should ring if you lose weight too fast and Carbs are central to that.

Post Edited (Jimbo NZ) : 8/21/2012 4:29:32 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 8/21/2012 4:29 PM (GMT -5)
So how did the Eskimos/Inuit thrive on an almost or often fully carb free diet? I do eat a lot of veggies though. Sadly, while I like the taste, coconut oil seems to trigger inflammation and flaring, so I avoid it after experimenting.
Posted 8/21/2012 4:35 PM (GMT -5)
I have read somewhere that eskmos did not live that long and had a lot of health issues, but I dunno if that's true.
Posted 8/21/2012 4:52 PM (GMT -5)
yes, it's true...harsh environment for the diehard Inuit (that's what we call them in Canada).

Their bodies have a lot of PCBs in them .
They also have a very slow metabolism, probably the reason to not consume carbs. Plus, high fat diet for energy...very COLD for long periods of time there.

I'd assume they'd eat some sort of plants, berry fruit, etc in the seasons that they grow, however.

of course, now I'm going to look it up.

found this....haven't read it yet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inuit_diet

q

Posted 8/21/2012 4:54 PM (GMT -5)

boumboumbambino said...
I have read somewhere that eskmos did not live that long and had a lot of health issues, but I dunno if that's true.

I have read that Eskimos (correct name is Inuit) had no heart disease prior to Western food being introduced. I do not know about lifespan, it is a harsh, unforgiving climate and food-gathering can be dangerous.
Posted 8/21/2012 5:03 PM (GMT -5)
Coconut oil is a perfect replacement to fuel the cells. I use it to replace olive oil in many cases.

Coconut butter is great too.
Posted 8/21/2012 5:35 PM (GMT -5)
Ooops, I did'nt know the correct name was Inuit thanks for telling me ... I live in Canada too and it feels like winters are a thing of the past :( (At least in Quebec), but that's another discussion...
Posted 8/21/2012 5:52 PM (GMT -5)
Probiotic,

Sadly, while I like the taste, coconut oil seems to trigger inflammation and flaring, so I avoid it after experimenting.

I, too, have terrible problems with coconut oil, coconut anything actually.

Years ago when I was tested for food intolerances through LEAP test, coconut ranked highest in my intolerances. So I have stayed away from it since. If I have coconut by accident, I'm in BIG trouble.

Posted 8/21/2012 6:37 PM (GMT -5)
InSoFla- good to know I was not imaging things with coconut oil- a shame that we cant jpin the coconut party though.

Re. The various aboriginal peoples on the Arctic (aka Eskimos though I grant it isnt PC), they now eat a fairly high carb, processed food diet thanks to so-called civilization and the wonders of air cargo. Weston-Price is the source of the alleged amazing health of those peoples before exposure to the Standard (North) American Diet, but I'll grant that vegan and low fat fans will want to see other evidence. The butyrate issue is interesting. Butter has butyrate though- but do organ meats and fats perhaps have it too?
Posted 8/21/2012 7:54 PM (GMT -5)
Probiotic, I haven't met anyone else who has a problem with coconut oil ; thanks for mentioning it.

One of the reasons I have butter IS due to the butyrate.
Posted 8/21/2012 8:08 PM (GMT -5)
I guess this is how some butyrate is formed if you are ketogenic,but they say

beta hydroxy butyrate is a dead end molecule not used for energy until converted. More like a ketone storage molecule.  The question is what is going on in the colon cells,are they being fed better or not.

Still looking into it,have not found much yet,but of course meat eaters with little carbs survive.

Old Mike

http://www.ajcn.org/content/76/1/65.full

Interesting Paleo site/blog.

http://huntgatherlove.com/content/short-chain-fatty-acids-and-low-carb

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 8/21/2012 7:44:47 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 8/21/2012 9:37 PM (GMT -5)
I developed UC after going low carb (I avoided all starchy carbs) and now I think that the lack of starch contributed to my problem. Paul Jaminet has talked about the dangers of going too low in carbs on his blog. One of the problems is developing a mucin deficiency which compromises the mucousal layer in the GI tract, which leads to all kinds of issues. I also agree with what I think Mike is saying, that we need starch to feed good bacteria

For every study that says 'this group thrived on a high fat diet', you can find one that says 'this group thrived on a high carb diet'. The commonality between all the different types of diet and lack of disease is that the people did not eat processed food. Sleep, sunshine and movement also likely helped their health. I've read that it was traditional for new couples to be given 'special' foods, like organ meats, prior to conceiving. No doubt in my mind they knew these foods had importance to the health of their babies. Didn't, like everyone, eat liver once a week back in the sixties? Somehow we figured out it was better to eat food out of a styrofoam box. FAIL!

Whatever.

It's too bad correcting the diet doesn't seem to cure the problem, but it sure seems like it helps, at least for many people. Seems like it's worth a shot.

Anyways, I've put root veggies back in my diet, hoping it helps. I also eat white rice sometimes.
Posted 8/21/2012 10:14 PM (GMT -5)
It is really difficult to figure this all out,I can find many reasons to not eat meat,if you have UC,grass fed or not. The more I read the more difficult it is to figure out. I can see why the doc's are confused on diet. Perhaps the solution as others have said is no processed chemicals,I mean foods. Are sprouted grains bad,not sure,how about fermented like sourdough,not sure.
Since I have tried SCD 3 times and all it did for me was to loose weight,which I cannot afford to do,I hesitate to try something like that again. Thinking

about going opposite,then again we have vegetarians here starting to eat meat.

Old Mike

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 8/21/2012 9:21:57 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 8/22/2012 3:32 AM (GMT -5)
Mike- I think the best we can do kn diet is trial and error. We all react differently. For me, even tho I do not test as allergic to glutens, starches and sugars incl fructose flare me, and meat does not. Of course, there may be science in both the pro and anti meat camps, but if something flares one, it becomes purely academic and of zero practical value as a strategy.
Posted 8/22/2012 7:34 AM (GMT -5)
Mike,

Great links, thank you!

I get my carbs from some veggies, and of course, when I cheat with pizza (and then I take the cheat fix remedy to prevent symptoms and it works GREAT).

I think I have read about Jaminet's suggestion that those on high protein should have 1 cup of rice (white) daily for glucose synthesis.

For me, it would have to be a separate meal or snack of that alone, since I follow strictly food combining rules, and eating rice + protein is a no-no.

Posted 8/22/2012 8:27 AM (GMT -5)
For years some of us have been sharing that powdered psyllium seed is very helpful. We don't try to shove it down everyone's throat because we understand everyone is different and it does not work for everyone. So we don't invent dubious claims such as "nature's mesalamine" or whatever. We just want to make others aware of some protocols that are effective for some of us and may or may not help others.

If grains, carbs, and dairy are not suited for your particular body chemistry then fine, don't eat them. But some of us thrive on them. There are even IBDers on this forum who don't have a problem with gluten. Get over it, everyone is different.

Here is an excellent explanation how some of us receive our butyrate:
"Anaerobic fermentation of the soluble non-starch polysaccharides from psyllium seed results in the production of the short-chain fatty acids acetate, propionate, and butyrate in the intestines. Psyllium husk contains only the epidermis of the seed, while the actual seed has a higher amount of fermentable fiber. Because of this fiber content, psyllium seed degrades more slowly than pectin and produces fairly large amounts of butyrate and acetate. Butyric acid exhibits antineoplastic activity against colorectal cancer, is the preferred oxidative substrate for colonocytes, and may be helpful in the treatment of ulcerative colitis. In a study of resected colorectal cancer patients, those given 20 grams of psyllium seed daily for three months exhibited an average increase of butyric acid production of 42 percent, which decreased to pretreatment levels within two months of cessation of supplementation. "
Posted 8/22/2012 1:28 PM (GMT -5)
hey Woods -

curious........ are you a meat eater ? can you be more specific about your remission ?

thanks,

Lonnie
Posted 8/22/2012 2:43 PM (GMT -5)
Ok this thread is helpful to me. I am having a tough time with paleo because I feel lightheaded constantly. I eat lots of olive oil and coconut oil, potatoes too. What else? Should I try to add rice/ pasta? I had a very accurate allergy test done And rice was very low for the reaction list. Any suggestions? I eat sunflower seed butter too
Posted 8/22/2012 3:09 PM (GMT -5)
chrissysoul, do can you eat nuts or seeds? i order these great power wraps from Gopal's health foods that taste just like slim jims. all the nuts are soaked and dehydrated so they are easier to digest than cooked nuts. also, i've been drinking mama chia drinks with chia seeds. these give me calories and omegas. also, do you eat 3 meals a day or are you more of a snacker? i noticed that i like eating meals better and bigger meals keep me full for a good 4-5 hrs.
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